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Thread: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Our country isn't far behind, and the cost of health care is a large part of the reason.
    I keep hearing about those rising healthcare costs as being part of the reason for the U.S. becoming more like Greece yet all I hear is rhetoric. Since we have a basic free enterprise society how can anyone say that healthcare costs are 17% of GDP when it is private healthcare costs that are unknown to most?

    If 17% of GDP is cut how is that a good thing? Does anyone on the left understand GDP, profits, cost of doing business?

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I keep hearing about those rising healthcare costs as being part of the reason for the U.S. becoming more like Greece yet all I hear is rhetoric. Since we have a basic free enterprise society how can anyone say that healthcare costs are 17% of GDP when it is private healthcare costs that are unknown to most?

    If 17% of GDP is cut how is that a good thing? Does anyone on the left understand GDP, profits, cost of doing business?
    Is it really your contention that rising health care costs are a good thing, as they add to the GDP?

    If that's the case, then let's see if we can increase the cost of housing, food, energy, etc., and really pump up the GDP.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    So let me see if I have this correct, you are blaming hospital markups to treat the uninsured as the reason for the high costs of healthcare? Couldn't have anything at all to do with illegals using the healthcare system? Couldn't have anything to do with govt. regulations and the high costs of R&D? Couldn't have anything to do with a shortage of hospitals and doctors? Couldn't have anything to do with frivolous lawsuits? Couldn't have anything to do with hospitals not going after patients who could afford to pay their bills but instead run from their responsibilities?

    Your answer to the rising healthcare costs is to increase them on the backs of the taxpayers? Apparently shifting costs from one pocket to another is ok as long as one pocket gets a decrease?
    As a reason, yes. Is there more than one reason? Yes. Should we not fix one reason because we haven't fixed all reasons? No. One step is one step closer than no steps.

    And the tax payers are paying now. I keep pointing that out. We pay regardless. It's just a matter of how we pay and how much control we have over it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Is it really your contention that rising health care costs are a good thing, as they add to the GDP?

    If that's the case, then let's see if we can increase the cost of housing, food, energy, etc., and really pump up the GDP.
    Not sure it isn't a good thing as it depends on where the money goes. If it goes to R&D, employing people, improving infrastructure then it is a good thing. Profits aren't bad nor should they be demonized.

    Tell me where those high costs go? You are the one posting articles claiming that healthcare costs are 17% of GDP but cannot explain how those costs were registered nor why that is a bad thing since most here don't understand GDP.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Not sure it isn't a good thing as it depends on where the money goes. If it goes to R&D, employing people, improving infrastructure then it is a good thing. Profits aren't bad nor should they be demonized.

    Tell me where those high costs go? You are the one posting articles claiming that healthcare costs are 17% of GDP but cannot explain how those costs were registered nor why that is a bad thing since most here don't understand GDP.
    You misunderstand. No one is objecting to profit. You're not really addressing the issue at all. This is about charging us extra to cover those they treat who don't or can't pay. When they don't pay, we do. We pay more. This rises costs across the board.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You misunderstand. No one is objecting to profit. You're not really addressing the issue at all. This is about charging us extra to cover those they treat who don't or can't pay. When they don't pay, we do. We pay more. This rises costs across the board.
    I am still waiting for you to break out the number of people using the ER's that cannot pay. If hospitals have bad bookkeeping and don't bill those that can pay why should the taxpayer fund it. Stop with the broad brush, the number of people using the ER that cannot pay is a very small number in the overall scheme. I already posted MA numbers of insured using the ER's. Do taxpayers pay for that usage?

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I am still waiting for you to break out the number of people using the ER's that cannot pay. If hospitals have bad bookkeeping and don't bill those that can pay why should the taxpayer fund it. Stop with the broad brush, the number of people using the ER that cannot pay is a very small number in the overall scheme. I already posted MA numbers of insured using the ER's. Do taxpayers pay for that usage?

    Again? Will you remember seeing it this time?

    At least 15.3% of the population is completely uninsured,[1][2][3] and a substantial additional portion of the population (35%) is "underinsured", or not able to cover the costs of their medical needs.[4][5]

    (snip)

    A 2003 study in Health Affairs estimated that uninsured people in the U.S. received approximately $35 billion in uncompensated care in 2001.[86] The study noted that this amount per capita was half what the average insured person received. The study found that various levels of government finance most uncompensated care, spending about $30.6 billion on payments and programs to serve the uninsured and covering as much as 80–85% of uncompensated care costs through grants and other direct payments, tax appropriations, and Medicare and Medicaid payment add-ons. Most of this money comes from the federal government, followed by state and local tax appropriations for hospitals. Another study by the same authors in the same year estimated the additional annual cost of covering the uninsured (in 2001 dollars) at $34 billion (for public coverage) and $69 billion (for private coverage). These estimates represent an increase in total health care spending of 3–6% and would raise health care’s share of GDP by less than one percentage point, the study concluded.[87] Another study published in the same journal in 2004 estimated that the value of health forgone each year because of uninsurance was $65–$130 billion and concluded that this figure constituted "a lower-bound estimate of economic losses resulting from the present level of uninsurance nationally."[88]

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States]Health care in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    Consumers can find the cost of many drugs on Johns Hopkins ABX Guide, and I found that one unit of Ampicillin/Sulbactam, for example, cost the hospital $10, but they charged my son $378; eight units cost the hospital $80, but they charged $3,024 for it. Or a one-gram Vancomycin injection costs the hospital $9.75 per unit, and they charged my son $387. Five shots cost the hospital $48.75, but they charged my son $1,935. Same with Moxifloxacin IV, 400 mg: It costs the hospital $43.75, but they charge the patient $557. All together, the total hospital cost for medication for my son's entire stay (according to the ABX guide) was $187.54, and the total Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital charged my son was $5,625. These are all very common antibiotics, and the markup was 2,999 percent.

    (snip)

    I was stunned to learn that California hospitals are free to set whatever charges they want for their services, medicines, and supplies. I'd heard justifications such as: High hospital charges are necessary to offset the hospital costs of those without insurance and function as a type of "hidden tax" the rest of us must bear,

    The Santa Barbara Independent All Marked Up




    You might also rad this:

    Arguments for health-care reform: Uninsured in the emergency room? | The Economist

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again? Will you remember seeing it this time?

    At least 15.3% of the population is completely uninsured,[1][2][3] and a substantial additional portion of the population (35%) is "underinsured", or not able to cover the costs of their medical needs.[4][5]

    (snip)

    A 2003 study in Health Affairs estimated that uninsured people in the U.S. received approximately $35 billion in uncompensated care in 2001.[86] The study noted that this amount per capita was half what the average insured person received. The study found that various levels of government finance most uncompensated care, spending about $30.6 billion on payments and programs to serve the uninsured and covering as much as 80–85% of uncompensated care costs through grants and other direct payments, tax appropriations, and Medicare and Medicaid payment add-ons. Most of this money comes from the federal government, followed by state and local tax appropriations for hospitals. Another study by the same authors in the same year estimated the additional annual cost of covering the uninsured (in 2001 dollars) at $34 billion (for public coverage) and $69 billion (for private coverage). These estimates represent an increase in total health care spending of 3–6% and would raise health care’s share of GDP by less than one percentage point, the study concluded.[87] Another study published in the same journal in 2004 estimated that the value of health forgone each year because of uninsurance was $65–$130 billion and concluded that this figure constituted "a lower-bound estimate of economic losses resulting from the present level of uninsurance nationally."[88]

    Health care in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Consumers can find the cost of many drugs on Johns Hopkins ABX Guide, and I found that one unit of Ampicillin/Sulbactam, for example, cost the hospital $10, but they charged my son $378; eight units cost the hospital $80, but they charged $3,024 for it. Or a one-gram Vancomycin injection costs the hospital $9.75 per unit, and they charged my son $387. Five shots cost the hospital $48.75, but they charged my son $1,935. Same with Moxifloxacin IV, 400 mg: It costs the hospital $43.75, but they charge the patient $557. All together, the total hospital cost for medication for my son's entire stay (according to the ABX guide) was $187.54, and the total Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital charged my son was $5,625. These are all very common antibiotics, and the markup was 2,999 percent.

    (snip)

    I was stunned to learn that California hospitals are free to set whatever charges they want for their services, medicines, and supplies. I'd heard justifications such as: High hospital charges are necessary to offset the hospital costs of those without insurance and function as a type of "hidden tax" the rest of us must bear,

    The Santa Barbara Independent All Marked Up




    You might also rad this:

    Arguments for health-care reform: Uninsured in the emergency room? | The Economist
    That is 46 million Americans that you and others claim are under insured yet none of you know the actual finances of those 46 million, many of whom can afford insurance but CHOOSE not to purchase insurance. Many of those 46 million are self insured yet according to some liberal that is being under insured.

    Why don't you stop telling everyone else what they need and handle your own life and finances. You have proven nothing other than you believe what you are told but only by sources that you want to believe.

    As a department head I hope you learn something. Do some research and find out how many people going to the Emergency Room are insured and have their insurance companies billed. Find out how many go to the ER's that are self insured and responsible for their own bills. Does your hospital bill them?

    What gives you the right to tell anyone else what they need? Freedom of choice comes with responsibility except in your world. If people choose not to buy insurance and can afford insurance but then have to use the ER's they should be billed for those services and should lose their assets if they refuse to pay. That Boo is personal responsibility something you don't seem to understand.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    That is 46 million Americans that you and others claim are under insured yet none of you know the actual finances of those 46 million, many of whom can afford insurance but CHOOSE not to purchase insurance. Many of those 46 million are self insured yet according to some liberal that is being under insured.

    Why don't you stop telling everyone else what they need and handle your own life and finances. You have proven nothing other than you believe what you are told but only by sources that you want to believe.

    As a department head I hope you learn something. Do some research and find out how many people going to the Emergency Room are insured and have their insurance companies billed. Find out how many go to the ER's that are self insured and responsible for their own bills. Does your hospital bill them?

    What gives you the right to tell anyone else what they need? Freedom of choice comes with responsibility except in your world. If people choose not to buy insurance and can afford insurance but then have to use the ER's they should be billed for those services and should lose their assets if they refuse to pay. That Boo is personal responsibility something you don't seem to understand.
    I don't need to know the actual finances of them. Pay attention. They have not been paying, regardless, and we have been. That's one reason why calling on them to be responsible and have insurance is proper.

    And what gives me the right is that I'm being asked to pay for them. Hell, not even asked. My costs just go up to do so. Their irresponsibility is effecting my bottom line.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #580
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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I don't need to know the actual finances of them. Pay attention. They have not been paying, regardless, and we have been. That's one reason why calling on them to be responsible and have insurance is proper.

    And what gives me the right is that I'm being asked to pay for them. Hell, not even asked. My costs just go up to do so. Their irresponsibility is effecting my bottom line.
    There is so much waste, fraud, and abuse at the govt. level yet you continue to support anything they say. Why aren't they paying? What gives anyone the right to skip out on a bill. If the taxpayer is funding someone else's healthcare bill that they can afford to pay where is your outrage?

    Sounds to me like a typical liberal solution to a problem, force everyone to buy insurance because you cannot manage your own business. I don't expect you to hold your position long if you don't know how to collect from those that can afford but skip out on their bills. Seems to me you have found it easier to bill the taxpayer than to go after payment. Typical liberalism.

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