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Thread: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

  1. #151
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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    There is no part of the definition that applies. We have loaned money to corporations before. See the Chrysler bailout in 1979.
    And the government doesn't control the health care industry. they simple adopted the 1993 conservative plan of individual mandates for health insurance through your choice of private companies.

    Personally, I think we should have a true UHC system like the rest of the developed world, but this as close as we could get with moderates in control of the government. Perhaps someday the liberals will manage to get a candidate elected and we can have true UHC.
    How much are you willing to pay for this healthcare system that the rest of the world has that for some reason you admire? Have you traveled much? There are over 308 million Americans in 50 sovereign states and you believe the govt. can implement a UHC? Check out the results of MA before spouting rhetoric.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    How much are you willing to pay for this healthcare system that the rest of the world has that for some reason you admire? Have you traveled much? There are over 308 million Americans in 50 sovereign states and you believe the govt. can implement a UHC? Check out the results of MA before spouting rhetoric.
    MA doesn't have UHC, they have individual health insurance mandates, which was a conservative idea.

    Look at Costa Rica where they have one of the most socialized forms of UHC as well as being one of the highest rated health care systems in the world!

    And the average person in Costa Rica makes one-tenth what Americans make!

    "Costa Rican Life expectancy is 76 years for men and 79.8 years for women, both longer than in the United States. The infant mortality rate in Costa Rica is less than that in the United States. The United Nations consistently ranks Costa Rica’s public health system in the top 20 worldwide and the best in Latin America.

    With a government-sponsored network of 29 hospitals and more than 250 clinics throughout the country, the Caja Costarricense de Seguro Social (CCSS) has primary responsibility for providing low cost health services to the Costa Rican populace. Open not just to Costa Ricans, the CCSS provides affordable medical service to any foreign resident or visitor. Foreigners living in Costa Rica can join the CCSS by paying a small monthly fee--based on their income-- or they can buy a very inexpensive but through health insurance from the State monopoly Instituto de Seguro Nacional (INS) valid with over 200 affiliated doctors, hospitals, labs and pharmacies in the private sector.

    Hospitals have the latest equipment, and laboratories are excellent. You can feel safe having most operations without returning to the U.S. or Canada. Most surgical procedures cost only a fraction of what they do in the U.S. For example, a heart bypass operations cost about a third of what they do in the U.S.

    Private clinics and hospitals provide quicker services with more privacy, enabling you to avoid long lines and the bureaucracy of the public system. In Costa Rica the term Clinica is used for private institutions that generally include inpatient medical/surgical facilities, doctor’s offices, laboratories, and radiology, pharmacy, and outpatient services. Hospital generally refers to a public inpatient medical and surgical facilities that also provide laboratory, radiology, pharmacy and related services."
    Costa Rica Healthcare|Hospitals|Heath Insurance

    You asked about cost ~

    "More money per person is spent on health care in the United States than in any other nation in the world,[6][7] and a greater percentage of total income in the nation is spent on health care in the U.S. than in any United Nations member state except for East Timor.[7] Despite the fact that not all citizens are covered, the United States has the third highest public healthcare expenditure per capita.[8][9] A 2001 study in five states found that medical debt contributed to 62% of all personal bankruptcies.[10] Since then, health costs and the numbers of uninsured and underinsured have increased."

    [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States[/ame]
    Last edited by Catawba; 04-14-10 at 01:28 PM.
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  3. #153
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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    MA doesn't have UHC, they have individual health insurance mandates, which was a conservative idea.

    Look at Costa Rica where they have one of the most socialized forms of UHC as well as being one of the highest rated health care systems in the world!

    And the average person in Costa Rica makes one-tenth what Americans make!

    "Costa Rican Life expectancy is 76 years for men and 79.8 years for women, both longer than in the United States. The infant mortality rate in Costa Rica is less than that in the United States. The United Nations consistently ranks Costa Rica’s public health system in the top 20 worldwide and the best in Latin America.

    With a government-sponsored network of 29 hospitals and more than 250 clinics throughout the country, the Caja Costarricense de Seguro Social (CCSS) has primary responsibility for providing low cost health services to the Costa Rican populace. Open not just to Costa Ricans, the CCSS provides affordable medical service to any foreign resident or visitor. Foreigners living in Costa Rica can join the CCSS by paying a small monthly fee--based on their income-- or they can buy a very inexpensive but through health insurance from the State monopoly Instituto de Seguro Nacional (INS) valid with over 200 affiliated doctors, hospitals, labs and pharmacies in the private sector.

    Hospitals have the latest equipment, and laboratories are excellent. You can feel safe having most operations without returning to the U.S. or Canada. Most surgical procedures cost only a fraction of what they do in the U.S. For example, a heart bypass operations cost about a third of what they do in the U.S.

    Private clinics and hospitals provide quicker services with more privacy, enabling you to avoid long lines and the bureaucracy of the public system. In Costa Rica the term Clinica is used for private institutions that generally include inpatient medical/surgical facilities, doctor’s offices, laboratories, and radiology, pharmacy, and outpatient services. Hospital generally refers to a public inpatient medical and surgical facilities that also provide laboratory, radiology, pharmacy and related services."
    Costa Rica Healthcare|Hospitals|Heath Insurance

    You asked about cost ~

    "More money per person is spent on health care in the United States than in any other nation in the world,[6][7] and a greater percentage of total income in the nation is spent on health care in the U.S. than in any United Nations member state except for East Timor.[7] Despite the fact that not all citizens are covered, the United States has the third highest public healthcare expenditure per capita.[8][9] A 2001 study in five states found that medical debt contributed to 62% of all personal bankruptcies.[10] Since then, health costs and the numbers of uninsured and underinsured have increased."

    Health care in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Will you ever be intellectually honest with anyone? Do you really want this country to be like Costa Rica? What is the average income in Costa Rica vs. the U.S.? the grass is always greener on the other side until you get there and realize that grass was actually paint. Do you want Costa Rica wages here? How about Costa Rica economic growth?

    MA doesn't have Single Payer healthcare but it does have Universal healthcare. You apparently don't know the difference. Either way the results will be the same, lack of incentive, lack of R&D, and high taxes to pay for it thus shortages of doctors which we have no but will get worse.

    Medical debt in this country because of its economy is born mostly by the private sector so once again you create a strawman. you totally lack a basic knowledge of our economy and how it works. You want so badly to buy what Obama tells you yet Obama has yet to have a prediction come true thus continues to lie to the American people.

    Comparing costs in Costa Rica vs. the U.S. is like comparing apples to oranges where both are fruits but that is the extent of it.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You have refuted nothing as all you have done is posted opinion pieces which ignore actual facts. The purpose of this bill was to reform healthcare yet all you claim now is this multi trillion dollar bill is a good first step. Your problem is you don't seem to understand how much a trillion dollars is nor do you see the potential consequences of failure.

    If you cared about actual evidence you would get the actual results in MA regarding their Universal healthcare program which is the model for what Obama has signed. When are you going to address the massive cost increase in MA and the fact that the highest healthcare cost state in the country continues to increase costs? When are you going to recognize that your claim of ER's use going down isn't supported by MA results?

    What is it about the liberal ideology that creates such passion for programs that never work?
    You may disagree with an opinion, but if it is structured through sound reasoning, it is valid.

    MA doesn't have universal health care (noted for you above). Again, you have to get your facts straight.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Will you ever be intellectually honest with anyone? Do you really want this country to be like Costa Rica? What is the average income in Costa Rica vs. the U.S.? the grass is always greener on the other side until you get there and realize that grass was actually paint. Do you want Costa Rica wages here? How about Costa Rica economic growth?

    Costa Rica's economic situation is not because of UHC. Their health care costs are a fraction of ours, as I have shown.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You may disagree with an opinion, but if it is structured through sound reasoning, it is valid.

    MA doesn't have universal health care (noted for you above). Again, you have to get your facts straight.
    All the best reasoning in the world cannot stand when the results contradict it. The results of actual UHC's dispel these opinions and it is those results that are being ignored.

    And YES, this is Universal Healthcare by definition. All citizens of MA have coverage. It is you that needs to get facts straight or do you simply buy all rhetoric created by people you like as factual?

    Universal health care is a system of organized health-care systems built around the principle of universal coverage for all members of society, combining mechanisms for health financing and service provision.[1]

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Costa Rica's economic situation is not because of UHC. Their health care costs are a fraction of ours, as I have shown.
    So are the wages. People making 9000 a year cannot afford U.S. healthcare costs nor does Costa Rica have the U.S. healthcare regulations, controls, and R&D Budgets

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    All the best reasoning in the world cannot stand when the results contradict it. The results of actual UHC's dispel these opinions and it is those results that are being ignored.

    And YES, this is Universal Healthcare by definition. All citizens of MA have coverage. It is you that needs to get facts straight or do you simply buy all rhetoric created by people you like as factual?

    Universal health care is a system of organized health-care systems built around the principle of universal coverage for all members of society, combining mechanisms for health financing and service provision.[1]
    Results are often assessed by reasoning. There is not a number or statistic that tells us the results of all things. Instead, we have to assess and rason it.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Results are often assessed by reasoning. There is not a number or statistic that tells us the results of all things. Instead, we have to assess and rason it.
    When are you going to use reason to assess the performance of all federal initiated social programs? Are you ever going to use reason to review the MA performance?

    You can study govt run programs until hell freezes over and a reasonable person will come up with the same results, total and complete failure in terms of controlling costs and improving quality.

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    Re: Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Hospitals have the latest equipment, and laboratories are excellent. You can feel safe having most operations without returning to the U.S. or Canada. Most surgical procedures cost only a fraction of what they do in the U.S. For example, a heart bypass operations cost about a third of what they do in the U.S.
    Just an FYI, here's a price list. Although it's from a medical tourism site, it'll give an idea of the cost differences. It should also be noted that these Costa Rica medical costs are not an anomaly in medical tourism destinations.

    Medical Procedures USA Costa Rica

    Heart Bypass Up to $130,000 $24,000
    Heart Valve Replacement Up to $160,000 $15,000
    Angioplasty Up to $57,000 $9,000
    Hip Replacement Up to $43,000 $12,000
    Hysterectomy Up to $20,000 $4,000
    Knee Replacement Up to $40,000 $11,000
    Spinal Fusion Up to $62,000 $25,000


    Costa Rica: More than Cosmetic & Dental Surgery


    *sorry about the formatting, but you get the idea.
    Last edited by BWG; 04-14-10 at 02:00 PM.
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