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Thread: Obama Socialist Health care program....

  1. #11
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    Re: Obama Socialist Health care program....

    I have a question to raise though.

    I'm starting to agree with conservatives on one note, and thats the more I study American politics and the governmental system and structure, it appears that the Federal Government could really mess up a Government run system in America. It seems your system is just not set up for it. You're country is just too big, too much corruption in certain areas and the needs cannot really be addressed properly state to state.

    But even for you Navy Pride. Do you think that the IDEA of everyone having Health Care is such a bad thing? If it worked?

    Here in Canada the Health Care system isn't perfect... granted. But it allows everyone to have a level of care that I believe satisfies a persons basic human right to life and good health. If you're sick you can go see the doctor, free of charge. If you need life saving surgery you will get it.

    Does that all seem so bad... once again if it worked?

  2. #12
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    Re: Obama Socialist Health care program....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    I have a question to raise though.

    I'm starting to agree with conservatives on one note, and thats the more I study American politics and the governmental system and structure, it appears that the Federal Government could really mess up a Government run system in America. It seems your system is just not set up for it. You're country is just too big, too much corruption in certain areas and the needs cannot really be addressed properly state to state.

    But even for you Navy Pride. Do you think that the IDEA of everyone having Health Care is such a bad thing? If it worked?

    Here in Canada the Health Care system isn't perfect... granted. But it allows everyone to have a level of care that I believe satisfies a persons basic human right to life and good health. If you're sick you can go see the doctor, free of charge. If you need life saving surgery you will get it.

    Does that all seem so bad... once again if it worked?

    I have no problem with everyone having health care but I want it paid for.......No offense to Canada but I have heard many horror stories about your health care..........This plan is one sixth of our budget........Pelosi says approve it and then we can figure out what is in it later......no way...........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Obama Socialist Health care program....

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    They bought the banks, the auto industry, and now they want insurance companies and student loans.
    Preferred share holders are not really considered equity owners. Preferred shareholders are essentially un-collateralized bond holders with no right to demand payments. Therefore, the government did not buy any bank. The same reason goes for the auto industry. The idea that preferred shareholders who's shares are callable by the corporation at any time own that company is laughable.

    Furthermore, insurance companies are having their regulatory framework changed, not their ownership.

    The plan is poor, but that doesn't mean you can't get basic facts right. But props to you for recognizing that Obama's plan is not socialist. Bush's drug bill was far more socialist then anything Obama's pushed and Navy Pride never, ever ever criticized that on WS.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Obama Socialist Health care program....

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    This plan is one sixth of our budget.
    While I am fully aware that you are uninformed on just about everything, the government already dictates the majority of healthcare in the US as it is. Between medicare and medicaid, the lion's share is accounted for. Complaining that the government is going to take over 1/6th of the economy is late considering how things are done now. As a long time defender of Bush, you said nothing when Bush signed his socialist drug bill which further expanded government control over health care.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Obama Socialist Health care program....

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Yet....you and your cohorts sat silently while GWB led us to the gutter and to the brink of economic and moral bankruptcy.
    First, you didn't even know I existed nor do you know what I did or did not do. And while a nice generalization by you isn't unexpected, GWB did NOTHING to try to consciously destroy our economic system. He took this country into only 1 new direction with 1 new idea: Pre-emptive foreign policy using military. And as the support showed, the American people and the rest of Washington were behind him in it. If you want to, after the fact, claim you always knew better - well, isn't that the way of the internet? You can make any claim you want...
    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post

    If following Obama gets us out of the sewerhole that GWB put this country....then I'm all for it. Perhaps you enjoyed having our country's morals and integrity destroyed by the previous administration....personally, I'll take the road that rebuilds this country.
    Following Obama digs the sewer hole deeper. Obama hasn't change one damn thing about that evil GWB foreign policies. We're still in wars, Gitmo's still open, the Fed is still spying on it's citizens... nothings changed. Or did you just conveniently forget about that while reading your liberal-progressive talking points?

    Tell you what, if you were against GWB as much as you say and criticize others... you should be marching on Washington today against Obama. But you're not are you. Hypocrites calling others out for hypocrisy, how unique.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Obama Socialist Health care program....

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Your as blind as a bat DD.......Even Democrats are leaving Obama in droves......Your only answer is Bush as Obama triples the debt and destroys our relations with the only real friend we have in the ME..........

    No Navy.....it is once again you that is refusing to accept reality. Every economic indicator shows the economy improving. What is going to be your answer then?....that is was just "natural cycle"?

    I still cannot understand how you could sit back and give Bush a pass on every issue while our country was being destroyed, yet, don't even want to give Obama a chance to try to repair the damage. If Obama can't do it...then yes, he deserves to go down in history as a big failure like GWB, but 1 year into his terms I think it is premature.

    As for Israel. You are hilarious. You rail and rail about Government spending, but I guess you have no problem with the millions that our government sends to Israel and Israel continues to spend the money building in the Gaza strip.
    I suspect that you have no clue what is going on between Israel and Palestine...but the only real hope for peace in the region is if both side honor the peace agreement, which requires Palestine to accept Israel's right to exist, but also requires Israel to stop encroaching in lands that are the subject of the peace agreement. Isreal's actions are fueling the war and I supposed that you want the US to keep sending millions to them to encourage that.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Obama Socialist Health care program....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    But even for you Navy Pride. Do you think that the IDEA of everyone having Health Care is such a bad thing? If it worked?
    This is a more complicated question than it would seem. Of course we all would love it if everyone had first rate health care. But what if coverage means that we all have to go back to medieval quality? In that case, everyone would agree that we should not have it. Of course the real tradeoff is somewhere in the middle. If you simply refuse to pay for something, you will not get the best quality. And that's what this government actually means by "cost cutting"- refusing to pay market prices for medical goods and services. Look at what medicare has done to primary care in this country already. The last thing health insurance needs is more rent seeking and corruption.

    There is another issue- health care is not something we are born with like the right to free speech. It is something that is provided by other people. If you want the benefits of insurance without paying for it (i.e. you have "preexisting conditions" and all the sob stories that go with it), then you're effectively stealing. Health care is something we should strive to make available to everyone, because it's in all of our interests, but it's not a right.
    If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand.
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  8. #18
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    Re: Obama Socialist Health care program....

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    What Obama is pushing in the bill isn't socialist, rather it's just garbage. No where is there a public option, just fines and higher taxes. Plus it forces everyone to buy insurance or pay a heavy fine. What is in the bill is just complete refuse, and I think it's a step towards nationalizing another market. They may not be socializing medicine, but they are trying to own insurance companies and now the student loans (that was just added). It seems the Obama administration wants to buy out America. They bought the banks, the auto industry, and now they want insurance companies and student loans.
    Ever hear the addage "dont let the camel get its nose inside the tent flap"? thats all this is. Once we actually HAVE health care legislation they will be free to alter it until it is the single payer system Obama and other top democrats have long advocated (and please dont make me post the videos yet AGAIN...).

  9. #19
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    Re: Obama Socialist Health care program....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    I have a question to raise though.

    I'm starting to agree with conservatives on one note, and thats the more I study American politics and the governmental system and structure, it appears that the Federal Government could really mess up a Government run system in America. It seems your system is just not set up for it. You're country is just too big, too much corruption in certain areas and the needs cannot really be addressed properly state to state.

    But even for you Navy Pride. Do you think that the IDEA of everyone having Health Care is such a bad thing? If it worked?

    Here in Canada the Health Care system isn't perfect... granted. But it allows everyone to have a level of care that I believe satisfies a persons basic human right to life and good health. If you're sick you can go see the doctor, free of charge. If you need life saving surgery you will get it.

    Does that all seem so bad... once again if it worked?
    Im not Navy Pride, but Id like to take a stab at this...

    NO...I dont at all think health care would be a bad thing. PROVIDED that it was run responsibly and on a state level. At least one person here firmly advocated for the Hawaii system of health care. considering the tax rates in Hawaii are still fairly reasonable, then i would say that the system in hawaii PROBABLY works as advertised.

    So...logically (he said in his best Monty Python voice...)

    If it works at a state level...GREAT. States should be encouraged to to establish plans. The federal government should be reduced. medicare/Medicaid should be abolished.

    Unfortunately...what we HAVE is a group of politicians who see every legislation as a chance to ram through some good home cookin. We cant manage Medicare/Medicaid to the tune of at least 80 BILLION a year in corrupt costs. Our federal government has put us in a 13.5 trillion dollar hole (and recently changed the cap to allow that to go to 15 TRILLION). the first rounds of 'health care' legislation ioncluded funding for special interest groups, state projects NOT medical related, and a few hundred billion dollars to re-fund the labor unions retirement accounts. Additionally we have seen the president and senior members of congress literally BRIBING congressmen for their votes.

    And some people still defend the fed and their health care efforts as a GOOD thing.

    I'm REASONABLY certain that ANYONE that supports passage of federal health care (legislation they havent even SEEN) is unemployed, underemployed, or one of those crippled and dependent pets that the democrats have cultivated over the last few decades.

  10. #20
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    Re: Obama Socialist Health care program....

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Yet....you and your cohorts sat silently while GWB led us to the gutter and to the brink of economic and moral bankruptcy.
    This is just bigoted, partisan bluster.
    Never mind that 'he did it too' isnt a defense.

    If following Obama gets us out of the sewerhole that GWB put this country...
    Not that you can prove any such thing...

    personally, I'll take the road that rebuilds this country.
    Then you need to stop voting for liberals and democrats.

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