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Kucinich willing to cast the vote that kills health reform

Of course the burden for you is, if in fact some people do die for a lack of health insurance, then, what number is ‘acceptable’ before a change must be made. One life? Two? A hundred? A thousand?
 
Chappy said:
Of course the burden for you is, if in fact some people do die for a lack of health insurance, then, what number is ‘acceptable’ before a change must be made. One life? Two? A hundred? A thousand?
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Depends on what the cost of such a change would be compared to how many people would be saved. It's basic cost effectiveness.
 
RightinNYC said:
What does the question of whether a program is funded via general revenues have to do with the question of how much money it funnels to an industry? It's entirely irrelevant to whether the program is a "giveaway."
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That makes it an unfunded giveaway. Which is probably how I should have stated it since the conversation I was having with CriticalThought was about funding.

Why on earth would they remove one of the last few "cost containment" provisions in the bill? Unless progressives pick up another 50 seats and win the presidency, I don't see it happening.
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Because it's not really "cost containment" if there is no competition to go along with the mandate.
 
RightinNYC said:
Depends on what the cost of such a change would be compared to how many people would be saved. It's basic cost effectiveness.
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I'll save this exchange in case I ever see you use the argument against rationing.
 
NoJingoLingo said:
Because it's not really "cost containment" if there is no competition to go along with the mandate.
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Which is why you're a huge proponent of eliminating the barriers to selling across state lines, I presume.

NoJingoLingo said:
I'll save this exchange in case I ever see you use the argument against rationing.
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Feel free, I've been a huge proponent of rationing since day one. Bring on the death panels.
 
RightinNYC said:
Which is why you're a huge proponent of eliminating the barriers to selling across state lines, I presume.
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Yup, with basic universal health and wellness care. Private insurance as a voluntary supplement.

Feel free, I've been a huge proponent of rationing since day one. Bring on the death panels.
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:rofl I think we can stop short of death panels but does granny, who can't really walk any more, need a knee replacement? Maybe not.
 
NoJingoLingo said:
Yup, with basic universal health and wellness care. Private insurance as a voluntary supplement.
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Say goodbye to the doctors of today, and hello to the flunkies that normally don't cut it.

More than 90 percent of doctors do not support this, and many of the established, financially secure will simply retire if this passes. They have to wrestle for every dime from Medicaid that is owed to them already. Can you imagine the federal government handling this? LOL
 
Erod said:
Say goodbye to the doctors of today, and hello to the flunkies that normally don't cut it.

More than 90 percent of doctors do not support this, and many of the established, financially secure will simply retire if this passes. They have to wrestle for every dime from Medicaid that is owed to them already. Can you imagine the federal government handling this? LOL
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Wah. :2bigcry:

Got a source for 90% of GPs not supporting UHC?

Then it would be obvious that the compensation part would need adjusting.

Maybe, instead of your dooms day scenario, it might mean we'd get doctors who care more about helping their patients than the old "become a doctor and get rich" axiom. Your ilk doesn't seem to have a problem with the rest of societies workforce adapting to changes in the economy... that is when it suits your argument.
 
NoJingoLingo said:
So you don't believe the fear-mongering by the repubs has anything to do with it? If it's not effective then why is fear-mongering used (by both parties)?

If you can scare the dems who got elected in conservative districts, and if those dems are more concerned with re-election in those districts than doing what's right then do you think that might have an impact on their vote for the Bill?
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If the bill is so great it wont matter will it? Everyone will see how great it is and there will be singing in whoovilles all over the US.

I just have one primary question. Why do we have to We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it?


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uC4bXmcUvw"]YouTube- Pelosi: "We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it."[/ame]

Does that seem right to you?
 
Kucinich Switches Vote on Health Care - Prescriptions Blog - NYTimes.com

Representative Dennis J. Kucinich, Democrat of Ohio, said today that he plans to support the health care bill when it comes up for a vote this week. He becomes the first Democrat to publicly disclose his intention to switch from a no to a yes vote on the legislation.

...

In an interview five days ago, Mr. Kucinich said he could not support the legislation and dismissed suggestions that his vote would derail the Democratic health care agenda. But since then, the congressman has come under extraordinary pressure from groups across the Democratic spectrum, including Moveon.org, which encouraged him to support the bill.
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megaprogman said:
I have to say I agree with Kucinich on this one. I see nothing in the bill that will bring costs down over the long term. All this seems to do is prolong the inevitable collapse of the market unless serious changes are made.

I say we may as well let the thing collapse now instead of it collapsing later and possibly bankrupting the country with it.
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If by "prolong" you mean "hasten".
 
Middleground said:
Kucinich is one of the very few politicians who will never be bought out by anyone. That is to be highly admired. Hate his stances all you want... but you cannot tell me this man is not ethical.
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Representative Dennis J. Kucinich, Democrat of Ohio, said today that he plans to support the health care bill when it comes up for a vote this week. He becomes the first Democrat to publicly disclose his intention to switch from a no to a yes vote on the legislation.
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Oops, scratch that.
 
gopman said:
Oops, scratch that.
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LOL!

Got to love a politician who stands by his beliefs. I always knew they guy was a wingnut but now a spineless wingnut... he fits right in with the rest of Congress. :2razz:
 
Is anyone really surprised he caved after a few threats and arm twists?
 
RightinNYC said:
You made an obviously false statement. Someone else tried to correct you, but used numbers that I consider to be straining credulity. I offered that article as an explanation of why both numbers were flawed and as an interesting discussion point, as most people are under the mistaken assumption that it's a "fact" that some tens of thousands of people die each year from a lack of healthcare.
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The fact is that people die and even if it's five people, it's worth a trillion dollars or 5-10 trill...and I'm sure our PETA people will chime in with the millions of pets in this country that need proper health insurance as well.

I mean it's not like we have another solution like taking the fraud out of medicare and medi-caid. That would never be enough money to cover the people and pets that are dying each year???
 
Middleground said:
Kucinich is one of the very few politicians who will never be bought out by anyone. That is to be highly admired. Hate his stances all you want... but you cannot tell me this man is not ethical.
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:ws

Dennis Kucinich cannot be bought!
 
“I got an invitation to go on Air Force One--given my previous record in not supporting the administration on many things, I thought that proper attire would include a parachute.” — Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH)Í​

Kucinich made the right decision and we are grateful for that.:cool:
 
Chappy said:
“I got an invitation to go on Air Force One--given my previous record in not supporting the administration on many things, I thought that proper attire would include a parachute.” — Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH)Í​

Kucinich made the right decision and we are grateful for that.:cool:
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Hoe about knee pads.
 
danarhea said:
What do unabashed Liberal Dennis Kucinich and Republicans have in common? Their opposition to Obama's health care bill.
While it is very true that Kucinich is opposing health care reform for different reasons than the Republicans are, he is still opposing it. With that in mind, I believe a strong case can be made for the expression "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". In that vein, if I were an Ohio resident, I would surely vote for Kucinich over any Republican who would be soft, and possibly vote for the health insurance bill.

Kucinich may be a Liberal, but in the end, his vote will be a Conservative one, even though that is not his aim. In the end, it's the numbers that count. And if Kucinich is the deciding vote that sends this hogwash down, then I won't care that he is a Liberal. We will have found common ground for uncommon reasons, and that will be reason enough to call him my hero, at least for that day.

Rock on, Dennis.

Article is here.
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appears dennis was convinced that the enemy of his friends are his enemy
that's gotta hurt the reich wingers and their premature celebratory mood
 
Taylor said:
:ws

Dennis Kucinich cannot be bought!
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Oh come on. How could he refuse? After all, they did give him an airplane ride. :rofl

.
 
Kucinich switches to YES! So much for principle and conviction. No tellin what that bunch is up to, in these political deals. Why I wonder if they aint offering 20 virgins or somethin to get these inductees to go on these sacrifical political suicide missions for them. Virtual, almost certain incumbent loss. For yes men on the quest for the glory of martyrdom in the infitada to expanding - HOLY GOVERNMENT ENTITELMENTS. Dennis Kucinich to hold his nose but vote yes on healthcare. / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com
 
Kucinch will cave like a Haitian village.
 
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