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Thread: Kucinich willing to cast the vote that kills health reform

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    Re: Kucinich willing to cast the vote that kills health reform

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Come talk to me when Baby Kucci becomes the President.
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    Re: Kucinich willing to cast the vote that kills health reform

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Her "liberal" use of those words is to indicate the fact that the science is not settled on this. See, rather than finding something that sounds good and asserting that it's the incontrovertible truth to the exclusion of everything else, most reasonable people look at situations like this with an open mind.

    My conclusion is not that a lack of health insurance causes no excess deaths, although the most comprehensive study to date seems to indicate that. Nor is my conclusion that a lack of health insurance causes 10k/20k/45k excess deaths a year like some other studies claim. My conclusion is that it's unsettled, but there is strong evidence that the number is somewhat lower than traditionally thought. Regardless of all of that, it's indisputable that it's drastically lower than your bull**** "millions" figure.

    If you want to make such broad pronouncements about a topic, try reading the article first.
    I did read the article, obviously, or I wouldn't know about her "liberal" use of certain words. Regardless, if it's not settled in your mind then why present it as evidence against, what you consider unsettled? Just to jump in on an discussion? I'm sure you can figure a better way into a discussion than that.

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    Re: Kucinich willing to cast the vote that kills health reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Are you that partisan that you actually believe that Dubya was a successful/good/decent businessman?
    Nice try, but you fail as usual. Back to the basement with ya.
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    Re: Kucinich willing to cast the vote that kills health reform

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    I did read the article, obviously, or I wouldn't know about her "liberal" use of certain words. Regardless, if it's not settled in your mind then why present it as evidence against, what you consider unsettled? Just to jump in on an discussion? I'm sure you can figure a better way into a discussion than that.
    You made an obviously false statement. Someone else tried to correct you, but used numbers that I consider to be straining credulity. I offered that article as an explanation of why both numbers were flawed and as an interesting discussion point, as most people are under the mistaken assumption that it's a "fact" that some tens of thousands of people die each year from a lack of healthcare.
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    Re: Kucinich willing to cast the vote that kills health reform

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Her "liberal" use of those words is to indicate the fact that the science is not settled on this. See, rather than finding something that sounds good and asserting that it's the incontrovertible truth to the exclusion of everything else, most reasonable people look at situations like this with an open mind.

    My conclusion is not that a lack of health insurance causes no excess deaths, although the most comprehensive study to date seems to indicate that. Nor is my conclusion that a lack of health insurance causes 10k/20k/45k excess deaths a year like some other studies claim. My conclusion is that it's unsettled, but there is strong evidence that the number is somewhat lower than traditionally thought. Regardless of all of that, it's indisputable that it's drastically lower than your bull**** "millions" figure.

    If you want to make such broad pronouncements about a topic, try reading the article first.
    Do you conclude that the number is Zero or Greater Than Zero?

    It definitely is not millions. But it's also not zero.

    So in the face of a study done, you read an article by some lady in an online magazine and conclude the study is just wrong. Based on what this lady says. She doesn't even cite any actual sources. She does say "according to some studies by ____" but doesn't actually link any studies.

    So, I guess my question is, on what information do you base this conclusion?
    Last edited by Deuce; 03-12-10 at 10:29 PM.
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    Re: Kucinich willing to cast the vote that kills health reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Do you conclude that the number is Zero or Greater Than Zero?
    Probably greater than zero. Probably less than 45k, or 20k, or 10k.

    It definitely is not millions. But it's also not zero.
    And I never claimed it was zero, whereas NoJingoLingo did claim it was millions. Not sure why you think that's a strike against my position.

    So in the face of a study done, you read an article by some lady in an online magazine and conclude the study is just wrong. Based on what this lady says. She doesn't even cite any actual sources. She does say "according to some studies by ____" but doesn't actually link any studies.
    Last time I checked, not every single article posted online included full hyperlinks to every single source being referenced. Are you really trying to claim that because she didn't include a link (one which you could have found in 4 seconds of googling if you were truly interested), you will refuse to believe anything she says? I'll keep that in mind next time you refer to an article that isn't thoroughly footnoted.

    I'm not here to walk anyone through every single study and explain the significance of each factor. I offered an article that referenced several scientific studies and discussed the impact of those results. All of the referenced results are easily obtainable for those who are truly curious. That's all I can do.
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    Re: Kucinich willing to cast the vote that kills health reform

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Believe what you want but it's not true. Republicans oppose the Bill because they don't believe in reforming health insurance/care. Otherwise they would have attempted it in 2001, or 2002 or 2003 or 2004 or 2005 or 2006 or 2007 or 2008 or any time since the New Deal.
    That is crap......Most believe in health reform just not social Obama health care that will bankrupt this country..........
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    Re: Kucinich willing to cast the vote that kills health reform

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    You made an obviously false statement. Someone else tried to correct you, but used numbers that I consider to be straining credulity. I offered that article as an explanation of why both numbers were flawed and as an interesting discussion point, as most people are under the mistaken assumption that it's a "fact" that some tens of thousands of people die each year from a lack of healthcare.
    Fine. I don't believe the numbers you use and you don't believe mine. Further discussion between us on it is futile.

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    Re: Kucinich willing to cast the vote that kills health reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    That is crap......Most believe in health reform just not social Obama health care that will bankrupt this country..........
    And I PROVED you wrong in the very quote you used.

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    Re: Kucinich willing to cast the vote that kills health reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    That is crap......Most believe in health reform just not social Obama health care that will bankrupt this country..........
    When was the last time Republicans proposed healthcare reform with any meaning? Nixon? That was around 30+ years ago. What were you? Like 70 then? Since then, what kind of meaningful healthcare reform have Republicans brought to the table? Now why don't you tell us about that time in the 1820s when you voted for a Democrat so we can all just get on with our day.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 03-13-10 at 03:41 PM.
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