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Thread: Arizona: The Surveillance State

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    Arizona: The Surveillance State

    Arizona: The Surveillance State
    For years Arizona has been known as the “sunset state,” but lately some residents simply call it the “surveillance state.”

    “They track us everywhere we go,” says Phoenix resident Shawn Dow. “It’s unbelievable. I can’t go anywhere and not have a camera tracking me.”

    Dow is now trying to change all that with a ballot initiative this November that would ban all ticket cameras in Arizona.

    “I’m tired of being constantly watched,” he said. We’re all being tracked like cattle.”

    In 2007, Arizona became the first state in the country to install ticket cameras state-wide, meaning there are cameras on most state highways; there are cameras at many intersections; and there are camera-vans videotaping on side streets.

    The owner of any car caught going over the speed limit or running a red light receives a ticket by mail.
    Do you think that the motorists complaining about the cameras are motorists who obey traffic laws, or are they disgruntled people who want to get away with violating traffic laws?
    The height of wisdom is to say, "I do not know." -Socrates

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    Re: Arizona: The Surveillance State

    As long as the cameras are only monitoring the roads and speed limits, and not what's happening off the roads or in people's cars (which are technically private property and are secure from unreasonable search and seizure), then I don't see the problem.

    You shouldn't be speeding or running red lights and if you're not then you have nothing to worry about.

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    Re: Arizona: The Surveillance State

    You shouldn't be speeding or running red lights and if you're not then you have nothing to worry about.

    That is the same logic that is given by advocates of various surveillance provisions included in the Patriot Act.

    "If you aren't engaging in terrorist activities then you have nothing to worry about."

    What a load of crap. These cameras are one big slippery slope and it needs to be stopped immediately before we turn in to Great Britain.

    Question for you.. Lets say one of these traffic light cameras sees inside your car as you are committing a crime unrelated to traffic, say killing your dog. Under your logic, this film should be inadmissible in court because they violated your private property and the incident wasn't traffic related?

    It begins with traffic cameras and ends with retinal or other biometric scans as you're walking down the street.

    But hey, if you are a law abiding citizen (decent movie) than you have no reason to care that law enforcement/government can track your movements unrestricted.
    Last edited by Polynikes; 03-04-10 at 07:38 PM.
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    Re: Arizona: The Surveillance State

    Quote Originally Posted by Polynikes View Post
    It's this same logic that is given by advocates of various surveillance measures in the Patriot Act.
    I'm aware of the implications and I am usually the first one to attack people who say "if you're not breaking the law you have nothing to worry about", and I'm also a big privacy advocate. But my point is... this is about traffic violations in public spaces. If the cameras are just monitoring the roads and are designed to take pictures when triggered by a speeding vehicle - which, to my knowledge, is how most photo radar technology works - then they aren't actively monitoring public movement 24/7 like London style cameras.

    Quote Originally Posted by Polynikes View Post
    Question for you.. Lets say one of these traffic light cameras sees inside your car as you are committing a crime unrelated to traffic, say killing your dog. Under your logic, this film should be inadmissable in court because they violated your private property and the incident wasn't traffic related?
    Yes, that's correct. The government can't put cameras in your home and so cameras monitoring speeding vehicles should not be peering into those vehicles. That's the job of police and due process needs to be followed. My original stipulation about the nature of the cameras still stands. IF they are just monitoring speeds and nothing else then I support their existence. Driving is a privilege not a right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Polynikes View Post
    It begins with traffic cameras and ends with retinal or other biometric scans as your walking down the street.
    Well based on the reactionary approach of people in Arizona to photo radar, I doubt it would ever get to those levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Polynikes View Post
    But hey, if you are a law abiding citizen (decent movie) than you have no reason to care that law enforcement/government can track your movements unrestricted.
    I think you are misquoting me. I am only in favor of the cameras within the confines of certain purposes, as I already mentioned. I'm not in favor of wanton spying on citizens.

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    Re: Arizona: The Surveillance State

    Quote Originally Posted by Goyboy View Post
    Arizona: The Surveillance State

    Do you think that the motorists complaining about the cameras are motorists who obey traffic laws, or are they disgruntled people who want to get away with violating traffic laws?
    I've never been caught by them, but I hate them. I don't like the cameras just monitoring things. And I think that if I do something wrong and the State wants to extract money from me for it (such as issuing a ticket), then they can chase me down in a cop car, pull me over, and issue me the damned ticket. Otherwise, keep eating the donuts and lose out on the ticket.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Arizona: The Surveillance State

    I live in Arizona. Yes in the metro phoenix area there are a bunch of cameras on the highway. So of the other highways and few towns also have photo radar. There are signs giving plenty of warning you are approuching a photo enforcement zone. The trigger is you have to be going 11mph over the speed limit. That triggers the camera to take a photo. If your under that the camera doesn't do anything. The metro area also has photo cameras at certain intersection to catch red light runners. ADOT has a few freeway cameras to monitor traffic flow. They are not detailed enough to read plates or indentify people

    My experience is going 11mph over the posted speed limit in the conjested areas is way to high. You should get a ticket anyway. The red light cameras are actived my sensors when you run the light. Experiencing some of the drivers in the valley, they also should get a ticket for running a light.

    Basically, drive within the law and you have no problem with the cameras. If I was speeding due to an emergency. I would be willing to go to court and state my case.
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    Re: Arizona: The Surveillance State

    The complaining parties are a bunch of whiners who think they are above the law. I have seen some of the red light runner videos and it makes it clear who was at fault. Recently they nailed some idiot on a motorcycle who had shown up in dozens of videos on the freeway. These people are risking the lives of others. Simple as that....
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    Re: Arizona: The Surveillance State

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    The complaining parties are a bunch of whiners who think they are above the law. I have seen some of the red light runner videos and it makes it clear who was at fault. Recently they nailed some idiot on a motorcycle who had shown up in dozens of videos on the freeway. These people are risking the lives of others. Simple as that....
    And a camera does nothing to prevent that. Perhaps a cop pulling them over will. But the camera is only going to send a ticket their way. It's nothing more than revenue generation for the State, not any form of behavioral modification.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Arizona: The Surveillance State

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And a camera does nothing to prevent that. Perhaps a cop pulling them over will. But the camera is only going to send a ticket their way. It's nothing more than revenue generation for the State, not any form of behavioral modification.
    Whether it is the camera or the cop, nothing will stop ALL the jerks who drive like they own the road. But BOTH help get the guilty off the road, if only temporarily.
    Your attitude might change when it is you nailed by a red light runner, and there are no human witnesses to verify that it is the other guy's fault.
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    Re: Arizona: The Surveillance State

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Whether it is the camera or the cop, nothing will stop ALL the jerks who drive like they own the road. But BOTH help get the guilty off the road, if only temporarily.
    The cop pulling someone over stops that person's reckless driving right there. The ticket is less apt to cause behavioral changes and are only instituted primarily as a fundraiser for the state.

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Your attitude might change when it is you nailed by a red light runner, and there are no human witnesses to verify that it is the other guy's fault.
    It's a risk we all take. I've driven many places without cameras, hasn't made me afraid to enter the intersection. Hell, CO is built upon red light runners, people around here seem to have the colors mixed up. But I still go on the road, on my motorcycle without a helmet. It's a risk, life is a risk. I want to be free and I want responsible government and I will take all consequences which come from that. If the State wants to give me a ticket, they can just go ahead and chase me down first.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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