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Thread: Arizona: The Surveillance State

  1. #11
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    Re: Arizona: The Surveillance State

    [QUOTE=Ikari;1058600421]The cop pulling someone over stops that person's reckless driving right there. The ticket is less apt to cause behavioral changes and are only instituted primarily as a fundraiser for the state.



    It's a risk we all take. I've driven many places without cameras, hasn't made me afraid to enter the intersection. Hell, CO is built upon red light runners, people around here seem to have the colors mixed up. But I still go on the road, on my motorcycle without a helmet. It's a risk, life is a risk. I want to be free and I want responsible government and I will take all consequences which come from that. If the State wants to give me a ticket, they can just go ahead and chase me down first.[/QUOTE]

    Me, me, me.....well, life would be less risky with less idiots on the roads. And if it takes cameras, so be it. I drive safely, get in the middle lane and stay there, keeping pace with existing traffic. The idiots who use the freeways as their personal racetrack need to be taken off the roads. Tickets are not enough, suspension of license should be applied on the second offense in a 3 year perios.
    Come on down to the Phoenix area, you will be safe here. The cameras may catch you, but the cops don't send tickets out of state.
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    Re: Arizona: The Surveillance State

    Quote Originally Posted by Goyboy View Post
    Arizona: The Surveillance State

    Do you think that the motorists complaining about the cameras are motorists who obey traffic laws, or are they disgruntled people who want to get away with violating traffic laws?
    I am against cameras in public spaces and areas.If these counties and towns want to to rake in revenue from people speeding and traffic revenue its called put police/highway patrol out there to catch people speeding and running red lights. Someone being pulled over and having ten-twenty minutes or more of their time taken away plus everybody and their mom staring at them as they drive by will have more of an impact than someone getting a ticket in the mail for speeding or running a red light. I could care less if the cameras will only be used to catch traffic violators its that slippery slope that they may decide to use to the cameras for other purposes.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Arizona: The Surveillance State

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Me, me, me.....well, life would be less risky with less idiots on the roads. And if it takes cameras, so be it. I drive safely, get in the middle lane and stay there, keeping pace with existing traffic. The idiots who use the freeways as their personal racetrack need to be taken off the roads. Tickets are not enough, suspension of license should be applied on the second offense in a 3 year perios.
    Come on down to the Phoenix area, you will be safe here. The cameras may catch you, but the cops don't send tickets out of state.
    you, you, you.....well life would be less risky with less idiots. End statement. But I can't run around shooting idiots all day. First off, it's illegal, secondly there's a lot. So we either live with it, or we authorize government to grow beyond its bounds. There's always going to be idiots, they're called business and psychology majors. But just because there are idiots doesn't mean I want the government to act inappropriately. Are there no idiots now on AZ roads? Doubtful. The camera doesn't prevent crap. The ticket received weeks after the event doesn't prevent crap. It's only money generation and that's all. And that's not a good enough excuse to justify the new powers.

    As I said, if they want to give me a ticket then they can do their damned jobs and chase me down and give it to me. Otherwise, they can piss off.
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    Re: Arizona: The Surveillance State

    - I have noticed the photo radar cameras tend to keep speeds down to the legal limit along the freeways where they are placed.
    - IMO, having police out patroling the freeways is better than the cameras.
    - In one small town in Arizona (Star Valley) they placed cameras at both end of the town because people were constanly speeding through. It has managed to reduce speeds to within the legal limits. Star Valley (population less than 2,000) does not have nor can they afford to have what few law enforcement tied up on traffic duties all day. While you can say it generates revenue. It also lets police take care of more critical calls.
    - bottom line, drive responsibly and within the limits. Photo radar is a non issue.

    I will agree that I would not like to see cameras placed everywhere that are there for the soul purpose of survailance. There is a place for them in certain areas (jail, etc)
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    Re: Arizona: The Surveillance State

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Me, me, me.....well, life would be less risky with less idiots on the roads. And if it takes cameras, so be it. I drive safely, get in the middle lane and stay there, keeping pace with existing traffic. The idiots who use the freeways as their personal racetrack need to be taken off the roads. Tickets are not enough, suspension of license should be applied on the second offense in a 3 year perios.
    Come on down to the Phoenix area, you will be safe here. The cameras may catch you, but the cops don't send tickets out of state.
    Even if we removed a lot of the "bad" drivers it wouldn't matter because most bad drivers slow down when a squad car is visible. The thing is that many times a police officer will enforce the law when the suspect applies his criteria. Which is a problem with the police.

    Also, people using the freeway as their racetrack isn't a problem. You see a car going faster than you and you are in the left lane move to the side and let that car past you which is the point of the left lane anyways. Also, the biggest problem on the freeway are slow drivers who slow down the lanes. Why? Because no one wants to go faster than the guy next to him so that is why they clog the lanes and traffic. Those drivers are dangerous.

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    Re: Arizona: The Surveillance State

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    - I have noticed the photo radar cameras tend to keep speeds down to the legal limit along the freeways where they are placed.
    - IMO, having police out patroling the freeways is better than the cameras.
    - In one small town in Arizona (Star Valley) they placed cameras at both end of the town because people were constanly speeding through. It has managed to reduce speeds to within the legal limits. Star Valley (population less than 2,000) does not have nor can they afford to have what few law enforcement tied up on traffic duties all day. While you can say it generates revenue. It also lets police take care of more critical calls.
    - bottom line, drive responsibly and within the limits. Photo radar is a non issue.

    I will agree that I would not like to see cameras placed everywhere that are there for the soul purpose of survailance. There is a place for them in certain areas (jail, etc)
    I don't have to worry. 16 years of driving I've had 1 speeding ticket and 1 accident and it wasn't my fault (girl rear-ended an SUV behind me, which then rear-ended me...now that was an energetic collision!). I don't like them on principle though. I'd much rather the cop have to chase me down, the State can earn their bread.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Arizona: The Surveillance State

    It's funny how all the cameras around here point down into the vehicles and not out at the traffic they are SUPPOSED to be monitoring!

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    Re: Arizona: The Surveillance State

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The cop pulling someone over stops that person's reckless driving right there. The ticket is less apt to cause behavioral changes and are only instituted primarily as a fundraiser for the state.
    I have to agree with you on this one. The purpose of public safety and the punative damages levied against one who breaches public safety codes in the form of fines is a measure to stop the behavior that puts everyone else at risk. A large part of this deterrence, in addition to the fine, is to face the accusing authority (the public safety officer) at the time of the offending action, not weeks later when the ticket shows up in the mail along with a picture. Use of cameras to do the jobs of officers only serves to seperate the citizen from his government with another layer of anonymity in government, making it less likely that the citizen will even be affected by the impact of his behavior on a personal level. More likely, it will serve to make the citizen more desensitized to the personal impact of his behavior because he was treated in such an impersonal way. Public safety issues should be addressed as public safety issues and not used by the state as a way of levying extra taxes against citizens.

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    Re: Arizona: The Surveillance State

    Quote Originally Posted by Goyboy View Post
    Arizona: The Surveillance State

    Do you think that the motorists complaining about the cameras are motorists who obey traffic laws, or are they disgruntled people who want to get away with violating traffic laws?
    Maybe its just as they said. They dont want to be monitored constantly.
    Thank you

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    Re: Arizona: The Surveillance State

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    I'm aware of the implications and I am usually the first one to attack people who say "if you're not breaking the law you have nothing to worry about", and I'm also a big privacy advocate. But my point is... this is about traffic violations in public spaces. If the cameras are just monitoring the roads and are designed to take pictures when triggered by a speeding vehicle - which, to my knowledge, is how most photo radar technology works - then they aren't actively monitoring public movement 24/7 like London style cameras.

    the cameras here run 24/7 and then snap when triggeed by a speeder, that is how they caught the guy who shot and killed an operator a few months ago.

    Yes, that's correct. The government can't put cameras in your home and so cameras monitoring speeding vehicles should not be peering into those vehicles. That's the job of police and due process needs to be followed. My original stipulation about the nature of the cameras still stands. IF they are just monitoring speeds and nothing else then I support their existence. Driving is a privilege not a right.



    Well based on the reactionary approach of people in Arizona to photo radar, I doubt it would ever get to those levels.


    I think you are right on this

    I think you are misquoting me. I am only in favor of the cameras within the confines of certain purposes, as I already mentioned. I'm not in favor of wanton spying on citizens.
    ..........................
    Last edited by cholla; 03-05-10 at 10:59 PM.

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