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President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Care R

Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

Republicans are in the minority in both Houses of Congress with a Democrat in the White House. This is NOT the Republicans fault, this is owned 100% by the Democrats.

The shift in blame to Republicans in this case, is ludicrous.
i can agree with that to some small extent. dems are showing cowardice on this issue. however, i contend that public opinion could have been swayed by honest communication about what exactly reform would entail, instead of the death panel scare tactics used by republicans.

but it happened, and it scared dems off true reform.
 
Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

Democrats need to get rid of the obstructionists ... Dems run the town, so time to own up and take responsibility.
which is just what i hope they do using reconciliation....stand up and TAKE ownership.
 
Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

2/3 of the people want healthcare reform, that tells me that republicans don't, as ever, give a crap about what the public wants.

Way to be misleading, are you even ATTEMPTING to be honest.

2/3's of people wanting health care reform does not equal 2/3's of people wanting THIS health care reform.

For example if I was asked by a pollster if "I want health care reform" I'd say Yes.

If I was asked "Do you want universal health care" or "Government provided insurance" I would say no.

If I was asked "Do you want the Health Care bill as pushed by President Obama" I'd say no.

So just because 2/3rds of people want health care reform...and if you want to throw out meaningless numbers I could pull out how many in this country consider themselves conservative so you could see the 2/3rds number is ridiculous to use as a bludgeon of republicans...does NOT mean the republicans are not doing the will of the people by disagreeing with this bill.

Please, how about you show some honesty. Quote the numbers of people that support THIS health care reform, not just reform in a general sense.
 
Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

Way to be misleading, are you even ATTEMPTING to be honest.

2/3's of people wanting health care reform does not equal 2/3's of people wanting THIS health care reform.

For example if I was asked by a pollster if "I want health care reform" I'd say Yes.

If I was asked "Do you want universal health care" or "Government provided insurance" I would say no.

If I was asked "Do you want the Health Care bill as pushed by President Obama" I'd say no.

So just because 2/3rds of people want health care reform...and if you want to throw out meaningless numbers I could pull out how many in this country consider themselves conservative so you could see the 2/3rds number is ridiculous to use as a bludgeon of republicans...does NOT mean the republicans are not doing the will of the people by disagreeing with this bill.

Please, how about you show some honesty. Quote the numbers of people that support THIS health care reform, not just reform in a general sense.
most people don't know WHAT this health care reform is, do they? they think it's about death panels and gov't intrusion, and you and i BOTH know it's not.

and my point here is that republicans have refused to even consider any kind of compromise, and i certainly hope that obama and the dems hammer that fact day in and day out, because it's been disgusting behavior from day one.

excuse my anger, but don't question my honesty.
 
Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

No, your point is you wanted to use a bull**** poll that didn't represent what you wanted and wanted to make use it to imply something completely different than what it is, and then when you want to get caught and called out in doing it rant and rave about lying republicans that arguably did...well...the same dishonest thing you did.

You tried to imply that because 2/3 of people want health care reform that it meant 2/3rds of the people wanted THIS health care reform because the republicans were denying the will of the people by stopping this health care reform. That's dishonest, and you know it, as evident by the fact you can't and won't back up your numbers with any links or any facts to show the question that was asked because it'll show its a generic "want health care" and not "want the health care as proposed by democrats/obama".

I'm sorry if you're getting angry that your integrity is being questioned, but when you're whining and bitching about devious tactics and then you use those tactics yourself excuse me if i think its hypocritically hollow.
 
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Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

Monday, March 01, 2010 Email to a Friend ShareThis.Advertisement

President Obama’s health care summit last week seems to have nudged up support, but 52% of U.S. voters continue to oppose the plan proposed by the president and congressional Democrats.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 44% favor the plan, up three points from last week just before the summit and the highest level of support recorded since mid-November.

Health Care Reform - Rasmussen Reports

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 44% in favor isn't 2/3's...... Right? :confused:
 
Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

No, your point is you wanted to use a bull**** poll that didn't represent what you wanted and wanted to make use it to imply something completely different than what it is, and then when you want to get caught and called out in doing it rant and rave about lying republicans that arguably did...well...the same dishonest thing you did.

You tried to imply that because 2/3 of people want health care reform that it meant 2/3rds of the people wanted THIS health care reform because the republicans were denying the will of the people by stopping this health care reform. That's dishonest, and you know it, as evident by the fact you can't and won't back up your numbers with any links or any facts to show the question that was asked because it'll show its a generic "want health care" and not "want the health care as proposed by democrats/obama".

I'm sorry if you're getting angry that your integrity is being questioned, but when you're whining and bitching about devious tactics and then you use those tactics yourself excuse me if i think its hypocritically hollow.
just because you inferred it doesn't mean i implied it. a majority of people also don't think republicans have done enough to work for reform, or are you going to deny that as well?

btw...here was my exact post, i'm sorry if you think it was devious. that's actually laughable, when my point has been throughtout this thread that reps have obstructed instead of coming to the table honestly to work something out. they have not by any stretch of the imagination been willing to give an inch. remember waterloo?

2/3 of the people want healthcare reform, that tells me that republicans don't, as ever, give a crap about what the public wants.
 
Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

i can agree with that to some small extent. dems are showing cowardice on this issue. however, i contend that public opinion could have been swayed by honest communication about what exactly reform would entail, instead of the death panel scare tactics used by republicans.

but it happened, and it scared dems off true reform.

I'll disagree - the greatest speaking communicator of at least the past 30 years is in the White House. He and the Democrats over the last year have had a chance to define, refine and communicate exactly what they wanted to do. The American people said they don't want it. What they DO want is, and unfortunately for Democrats, what the Republicans stated at the "summit": Scrap it and start over with REAL financial reform. You can blame it on "death panels" all you want, but the fact is no one including Obama could convince people the turd in the punchbowl was a good thing. Now instead of making new punch, he's planning on forcing people to drink...

And let's not kid ourselves, Democrats used scare tactics for the past 8 years and are unapologetic for the most part. That it was used against them for their pet project of health care, we're all supposed to scream "foul"? In order to take the high ground, there must be higher ground to stand on and sorry, your claim doesn't cut it.
 
Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

Health Care Reform - Rasmussen Reports

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 44% in favor isn't 2/3's...... Right? :confused:

Correct, unless Congress is planning to pass an amendment stating 44% now equals 66%. And I wouldn't put it past them to try.
 
Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

I'll disagree - the greatest speaking communicator of at least the past 30 years is in the White House. He and the Democrats over the last year have had a chance to define, refine and communicate exactly what they wanted to do. The American people said they don't want it. What they DO want is, and unfortunately for Democrats, what the Republicans stated at the "summit": Scrap it and start over with REAL financial reform. You can blame it on "death panels" all you want, but the fact is no one including Obama could convince people the turd in the punchbowl was a good thing. Now instead of making new punch, he's planning on forcing people to drink...

And let's not kid ourselves, Democrats used scare tactics for the past 8 years and are unapologetic for the most part. That it was used against them for their pet project of health care, we're all supposed to scream "foul"? In order to take the high ground, there must be higher ground to stand on and sorry, your claim doesn't cut it.
dems used scare tactics! where?.......that's enough of that piece of ridiculousness. what dems need are some balls to outshout the palins of the world.
 
Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

dems used scare tactics! where?.......that's enough of that piece of ridiculousness. what dems need are some balls to outshout the palins of the world.

Dems blocked something like 270 judicial nominees from 2001 to 2006.

The idea that only one side plays this game is completely ridiculous. Only a partisan would attempt to assert it.
 
Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

dems used scare tactics! where?.......that's enough of that piece of ridiculousness. what dems need are some balls to outshout the palins of the world.

They tried this past summer and failed at town halls all over the country.

And yes, Dems use scare tactics. You really want me to post them or is the faux outrage satirical?
 
Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

Here is Obama in his own words. We can not pass universal health care with 50 plus 1.

What I got from that assortment of video clips was as a young Illinois Senator, Obama viewed the process of getting legistlation passed one way, but as a U.S. Senator and and presidential candidate he viewed the process differently. Nothing wrong with that really. It's like moving up from being just another worker-bee to getting promoted to middle management and then to becoming the top brass; your views change as you move up that leadership ladder.

Still, point taken: Don't flip-flop on your views concerning how the democratic process works (in the Senate) because one day your words may come back to haunt you.
 
Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

They tried this past summer and failed at town halls all over the country.

And yes, Dems use scare tactics. You really want me to post them or is the faux outrage satirical?
no thanks. i can see this is going nowhere.
 
Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

Wait wait wait...so since the democratic process isn't working out for the Dems and their healthcare disaster, it's perfectly ok to trash that democratic process and then blame the republicans as the reason they had to trash the democratic process?

That's just ****ing rich. I can't wait till the dems do this. It will pretty much be the nail in the coffin of their hold on power for another 2 to 3 election cycles.
seems to me it's legal, so yeah, i say go for it, because it is the republicans fault.
 
Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

Health Care Reform - Rasmussen Reports

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 44% in favor isn't 2/3's...... Right? :confused:

Yes, when you ask two different questions you often come up with two different answers.

"Support healthcare reform:" 2/3

vs.

"Support this particular bill:" 44%
 
Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

just because you inferred it doesn't mean i implied it. a majority of people also don't think republicans have done enough to work for reform, or are you going to deny that as well?

Lets see what you wrote again:

2/3 of the people want healthcare reform, that tells me that republicans don't, as ever, give a crap about what the public wants.

So 2/3 of people want health care reform. Republicans aren't capitulating to Obama's current version of health care reform. Therefore republicans don't give a crap about what the public wants.

I'm sorry, I'm PRETTY sure the only way to interpret that is to say you're implying that those 2/3rds want THIS health care plan.

Why do I say that?

Because Republicans HAVE been trying to do reform. They've had websites detailing their plans and their suggestions for months. They've sent their plans to the President. They've stated their plans in the media and on the senate floor. So the Republicans, like 2/3rds of the American People, have been trying for health care reform.

So for you to say that THIS particular action tells you that Republicans don't care about what the Public wants it MUST mean that you are claiming 2/3rds of the public want OBAMA's health care reform....because if you were meaning simply ANY kind of reform then the second part of your statement would've been the dishonest part instead because republicans HAVE been trying for reform.

So, which is it liblady?

Were you being dishonest implying that 2/3rds of the American Public want Obama or the democrats reform.

or

Were you being dishonest that Republicans weren't attempting to push for some kind of reform, just as 2/3rds of the public wants?

Since you're so upset that you're called out on your dishonest attempts I'd just like to know which one I should address to make sure you get the least offended.

btw...here was my exact post, i'm sorry if you think it was devious. that's actually laughable, when my point has been throughtout this thread that reps have obstructed instead of coming to the table honestly to work something out. they have not by any stretch of the imagination been willing to give an inch. remember waterloo?

Very simple really.

Remove the notion of a public option, a trigger for a public option, or expansion of the current public options we have with penalties to people providing the chance for private options and you'll find a chance to work on compromises.

The Democrats are just as guilty of obstructing this as republicans. Will the republicans budge off that point on principle? No. But neither will the Democrats! You can't bitch and complain about the Republicans standing on principle while giving the democrats the pass for doing the same.

So if you're going to bitch, bitch at them both, and call for that to be removed. Then compromise may be able to happen.

But if you tell someone "I'm going to kill you in an amazingly painful way" and they go "No, can't we agree on something else" going "Okay, I'll kill you in a less painful way" isn't going to suddenly make them go "Okay" because the part they whole heartily can not agree with is still there.

Republicans may not like a lot of the things that Democrats are pushing but there is nothing more diametrically opposed to their principles, AND to the principles of the electorate that elected them (Oh, well, **** those people...they're republicans...they're representatives aren't supposed to vote or act in such a way that represents them. That's ridiculous! :roll:) than the further expansion of the government through greater government controlled health care.

Democrats know damn well what the biggest hurdle is to getting Republican support and they're being JUST as stubborn with it, refusing to let it go away just as stubbornly as Republicans are refusing to budge on anything that has something resembling government health care in it. Yet your pathetic bitching and moaning about Republicans blocking it (Something they cant' even really do) is just that, pathetic. Because it shows your utter and complete lack of objectivity.

So instead you want to jam it along and continue to throw this country into the gutter of politics. Spare me you ****ing cries of "CLINTON!!!!". You're no better than the Republicans then that cared nothing about the integrity of this country and simply for making a political mockery. And you're no better than the Democrats who were threatening fillibusters on judicial nominee's. And you're no better than Republicans who stupidly attempted to use Reconciliation for ANWAR, and yes like this THAT also was a ridiculous use of it. You're pathetic and worthless attempts at rationalizing and excusing the Democrats literally raping the Democratic system by going "Well the Republicans did it to" is the disgusting rationale used by 3rd graders who justify why they stole something out of the corner store because their buddy did it too.

You want Health Care reform and you want to refuse to remove the one part that is the utter and complete wall between compromise? Fine. Do it without completely ****ting upon the rules of the congress and setting the precedent for this country to continually be ass raped by politicians that don't give a damn about this country and simply want to push their agendas in hopes of it getting them elected because once reconciliation not only works for a bull**** situation like this that has NO BUSINESS being used on AND it gets passed by a President we're going to see this become the norm for every future congress...Democrat or Republican...and excuse me if "Well the Republicans played dirty with Clinton" isn't going to suddenly make me silent about the destruction of our legislative process.

This is wrong...

This would be wrong if Republicans were in its place using it to drill in ANWR or ban gay marriage or force school voucher programs and its wrong if Democrats are doing it. Something that is wrong is wrong regardless of the side, or the reasons. There are hypocrites on both sides, both Republicans that didn't speak out about it when it was being used for ANWR but are now and Democrats that spoke out then but aren't now. However, people being hypocrites doesn't mean that EITHER side should be doing something that is just frankly wrong and harmful to this country and passing this through reconciliation will be just that.
 
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Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

Now mind you, the republicans are not clean as the wind driven snow in this. The death panel things was idiotic, as has some of the rhetoric. However the Democrats have been doing their fair share of misinformation, misrepresentation, and over/under exaggerations as well.

I actually respect the Democrats for sticking to their guns on some version of government health care, be it a full single payer system or a public option or an expansion of current services mixed with other things. They campaigned on that, they won, they're sticking to their guns. Kudos.

I feel the same way for Republicans though. If my congressman caved on this and went and voted on it when part of why I elected them was to FIGHT this kind of thing then by god I'd be voting their ass out next year because they did NOT represent their constituents well, which is the entire point. To cave on the one thing that is most abhorrent to us just to "get reform done" is NOT what their constituents want and they are JUST as principled and respectable as the Democrats for standing up for what they're believing in and what they're constituents want.

Which is why I think they need to give up the notion of comprehensive reform right now, find the issues they can agree on and work together on, and get those passed. Then the democrats, being in the majority, can go to some more controversial measures of reform that are not likely to get all the republicans but have a better chance of getting SOME republican support and then try and pass that.

Will everyone get everything they want? No, not at all. However if this was REALLY simply about "reform" that is what would be going on. But its not, and its obvious its because its as much about politics as it is about reform.
 
Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

seems to me it's legal, so yeah, i say go for it, because it is the republicans fault.

The amount of denial here is astounding and really... akin to brainwashing. Republicans have nothing to do with this... Democrats own this issue 100%. The facts (remember facts?) identify Congress needs not one Republi can vote to pass any legislation and they need not one vote to get said legislation signed by the President.

Yet you continue to blame Republicans. I thought I had you nailed as a liberal who takes accountability and responsibility. I was wrong. Just another ideologue playing the blame game. I agree, this goes nowhere. Time for you to (politically) grow up.
 
Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

If they go through reconciliation, than it should allow the bill to be more liberal since the 51 most liberal senators can get together on it. That would be better. Unfortunately it won't work out that way in practice and right now its more of a give-away than it is something that will help our current health care problem. Especially since it has no cost controls that will slow the rise of prices over time, making it essentially kick the can down the road but accomplish nothing long term.

I saw we rewrite the bill into something that will work. Make the public available for everyone, not just the self employed and than you will see major positive change in the system.
 
Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

I saw we rewrite the bill into something that will work. Make the public available for everyone, not just the self employed and than you will see major positive change in the system.

Until a Republican majority takes the house and senate and a Republican takes the Presidency, and reconciliation happens and repeals the entire thing, making the entire idiotic exercise pointless save for setting the precedence that reconciliation can be used for...well...anything.
 
Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

Until a Republican majority takes the house and senate and a Republican takes the Presidency, and reconciliation happens and repeals the entire thing, making the entire idiotic exercise pointless save for setting the precedence that reconciliation can be used for...well...anything.

Unfortunately, due to the stupidity of both parties, it looks like that roadblock has been bypassed, so we may as well make the best of it.
 
Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

so what? obama has made every attempt to work with republcians, who have done absolutely nothing to effect a compromise.[/QUOTE]

delusional
–noun
1.an act or instance of deluding.
2.the state of being deluded.
3.a false belief or opinion: delusions of grandeur.
4.Psychiatry. a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact: a paranoid delusion.
Use delusional in a Sentence
See images of delusional

—Synonyms
1. deception. See illusion.
 
Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

2/3 of the people want healthcare reform, that tells me that republicans don't, as ever, give a crap about what the public wants.

Health care reform is needed. Saying 2/3 of the people want reform is misleading. The question is does the 2/3 of the people want this healthcare? I would say not. At least not me.
 
Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

Can you say Hypocrisy? See it in action.

YouTube- Democrats on Reconciliation when Repubs held the majority.flv

President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Care Reform Fix, If Not Given Up or Down Vote - Political Punch
White House officials tell ABC News that in his remarks tomorrow President Obama will indicate a willingness to work with Republicans on some issue to get a health care reform bill passed but will suggest that if it is necessary, Democrats will use the controversial "reconciliation" rules requiring only 51 Senate votes to pass the "fix" to the Senate bill, as opposed to the 60 votes to stop a filibuster and proceed to a vote on a bill.

Lawmakers on Capitol Hill have been awaiting the president’s remarks direction on how health care reform will proceed.

In his remarks, scheduled to be at the White House, the president will paint a picture of what he will say will happen without a health care reform bill – skyrocketing premiums, everyone at the mercy of the insurance industry as recently seen with the 39% premium increases proposed by Anthem Blue Cross in California.

He will note that the “fixed” bill will include the proposal for a new "Health Insurance Rate Authority" to set guidelines for reasonable rate increases. If proposed premium increases are not justifiable per those Health Insurance Rate Authority guidelines, the Health and Human Services Secretary or state regulators could block them.

The plan to pass the bill includes having the House of Representatives pass the Democratic Senate health care reform legislation as well as a second bill containing various “fixes.”
[/QUOTE]



I just wish they would call it what it is and not label it "health care reform"


Reform is the wrong word.

Reform would do us some good.

This bill has little to none of that in it.
 
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