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Thread: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Care R

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    Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    Health Care Reform - Rasmussen Reports

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but 44% in favor isn't 2/3's...... Right?
    Yes, when you ask two different questions you often come up with two different answers.

    "Support healthcare reform:" 2/3

    vs.

    "Support this particular bill:" 44%
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    just because you inferred it doesn't mean i implied it. a majority of people also don't think republicans have done enough to work for reform, or are you going to deny that as well?
    Lets see what you wrote again:

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    2/3 of the people want healthcare reform, that tells me that republicans don't, as ever, give a crap about what the public wants.
    So 2/3 of people want health care reform. Republicans aren't capitulating to Obama's current version of health care reform. Therefore republicans don't give a crap about what the public wants.

    I'm sorry, I'm PRETTY sure the only way to interpret that is to say you're implying that those 2/3rds want THIS health care plan.

    Why do I say that?

    Because Republicans HAVE been trying to do reform. They've had websites detailing their plans and their suggestions for months. They've sent their plans to the President. They've stated their plans in the media and on the senate floor. So the Republicans, like 2/3rds of the American People, have been trying for health care reform.

    So for you to say that THIS particular action tells you that Republicans don't care about what the Public wants it MUST mean that you are claiming 2/3rds of the public want OBAMA's health care reform....because if you were meaning simply ANY kind of reform then the second part of your statement would've been the dishonest part instead because republicans HAVE been trying for reform.

    So, which is it liblady?

    Were you being dishonest implying that 2/3rds of the American Public want Obama or the democrats reform.

    or

    Were you being dishonest that Republicans weren't attempting to push for some kind of reform, just as 2/3rds of the public wants?

    Since you're so upset that you're called out on your dishonest attempts I'd just like to know which one I should address to make sure you get the least offended.

    btw...here was my exact post, i'm sorry if you think it was devious. that's actually laughable, when my point has been throughtout this thread that reps have obstructed instead of coming to the table honestly to work something out. they have not by any stretch of the imagination been willing to give an inch. remember waterloo?
    Very simple really.

    Remove the notion of a public option, a trigger for a public option, or expansion of the current public options we have with penalties to people providing the chance for private options and you'll find a chance to work on compromises.

    The Democrats are just as guilty of obstructing this as republicans. Will the republicans budge off that point on principle? No. But neither will the Democrats! You can't bitch and complain about the Republicans standing on principle while giving the democrats the pass for doing the same.

    So if you're going to bitch, bitch at them both, and call for that to be removed. Then compromise may be able to happen.

    But if you tell someone "I'm going to kill you in an amazingly painful way" and they go "No, can't we agree on something else" going "Okay, I'll kill you in a less painful way" isn't going to suddenly make them go "Okay" because the part they whole heartily can not agree with is still there.

    Republicans may not like a lot of the things that Democrats are pushing but there is nothing more diametrically opposed to their principles, AND to the principles of the electorate that elected them (Oh, well, **** those people...they're republicans...they're representatives aren't supposed to vote or act in such a way that represents them. That's ridiculous! ) than the further expansion of the government through greater government controlled health care.

    Democrats know damn well what the biggest hurdle is to getting Republican support and they're being JUST as stubborn with it, refusing to let it go away just as stubbornly as Republicans are refusing to budge on anything that has something resembling government health care in it. Yet your pathetic bitching and moaning about Republicans blocking it (Something they cant' even really do) is just that, pathetic. Because it shows your utter and complete lack of objectivity.

    So instead you want to jam it along and continue to throw this country into the gutter of politics. Spare me you ****ing cries of "CLINTON!!!!". You're no better than the Republicans then that cared nothing about the integrity of this country and simply for making a political mockery. And you're no better than the Democrats who were threatening fillibusters on judicial nominee's. And you're no better than Republicans who stupidly attempted to use Reconciliation for ANWAR, and yes like this THAT also was a ridiculous use of it. You're pathetic and worthless attempts at rationalizing and excusing the Democrats literally raping the Democratic system by going "Well the Republicans did it to" is the disgusting rationale used by 3rd graders who justify why they stole something out of the corner store because their buddy did it too.

    You want Health Care reform and you want to refuse to remove the one part that is the utter and complete wall between compromise? Fine. Do it without completely ****ting upon the rules of the congress and setting the precedent for this country to continually be ass raped by politicians that don't give a damn about this country and simply want to push their agendas in hopes of it getting them elected because once reconciliation not only works for a bull**** situation like this that has NO BUSINESS being used on AND it gets passed by a President we're going to see this become the norm for every future congress...Democrat or Republican...and excuse me if "Well the Republicans played dirty with Clinton" isn't going to suddenly make me silent about the destruction of our legislative process.

    This is wrong...

    This would be wrong if Republicans were in its place using it to drill in ANWR or ban gay marriage or force school voucher programs and its wrong if Democrats are doing it. Something that is wrong is wrong regardless of the side, or the reasons. There are hypocrites on both sides, both Republicans that didn't speak out about it when it was being used for ANWR but are now and Democrats that spoke out then but aren't now. However, people being hypocrites doesn't mean that EITHER side should be doing something that is just frankly wrong and harmful to this country and passing this through reconciliation will be just that.

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    Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

    Now mind you, the republicans are not clean as the wind driven snow in this. The death panel things was idiotic, as has some of the rhetoric. However the Democrats have been doing their fair share of misinformation, misrepresentation, and over/under exaggerations as well.

    I actually respect the Democrats for sticking to their guns on some version of government health care, be it a full single payer system or a public option or an expansion of current services mixed with other things. They campaigned on that, they won, they're sticking to their guns. Kudos.

    I feel the same way for Republicans though. If my congressman caved on this and went and voted on it when part of why I elected them was to FIGHT this kind of thing then by god I'd be voting their ass out next year because they did NOT represent their constituents well, which is the entire point. To cave on the one thing that is most abhorrent to us just to "get reform done" is NOT what their constituents want and they are JUST as principled and respectable as the Democrats for standing up for what they're believing in and what they're constituents want.

    Which is why I think they need to give up the notion of comprehensive reform right now, find the issues they can agree on and work together on, and get those passed. Then the democrats, being in the majority, can go to some more controversial measures of reform that are not likely to get all the republicans but have a better chance of getting SOME republican support and then try and pass that.

    Will everyone get everything they want? No, not at all. However if this was REALLY simply about "reform" that is what would be going on. But its not, and its obvious its because its as much about politics as it is about reform.

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    Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    seems to me it's legal, so yeah, i say go for it, because it is the republicans fault.
    The amount of denial here is astounding and really... akin to brainwashing. Republicans have nothing to do with this... Democrats own this issue 100%. The facts (remember facts?) identify Congress needs not one Republi can vote to pass any legislation and they need not one vote to get said legislation signed by the President.

    Yet you continue to blame Republicans. I thought I had you nailed as a liberal who takes accountability and responsibility. I was wrong. Just another ideologue playing the blame game. I agree, this goes nowhere. Time for you to (politically) grow up.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

    If they go through reconciliation, than it should allow the bill to be more liberal since the 51 most liberal senators can get together on it. That would be better. Unfortunately it won't work out that way in practice and right now its more of a give-away than it is something that will help our current health care problem. Especially since it has no cost controls that will slow the rise of prices over time, making it essentially kick the can down the road but accomplish nothing long term.

    I saw we rewrite the bill into something that will work. Make the public available for everyone, not just the self employed and than you will see major positive change in the system.

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    Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I saw we rewrite the bill into something that will work. Make the public available for everyone, not just the self employed and than you will see major positive change in the system.
    Until a Republican majority takes the house and senate and a Republican takes the Presidency, and reconciliation happens and repeals the entire thing, making the entire idiotic exercise pointless save for setting the precedence that reconciliation can be used for...well...anything.

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    Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Until a Republican majority takes the house and senate and a Republican takes the Presidency, and reconciliation happens and repeals the entire thing, making the entire idiotic exercise pointless save for setting the precedence that reconciliation can be used for...well...anything.
    Unfortunately, due to the stupidity of both parties, it looks like that roadblock has been bypassed, so we may as well make the best of it.

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    Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

    so what? obama has made every attempt to work with republcians, who have done absolutely nothing to effect a compromise.[/QUOTE]

    delusional
    –noun
    1.an act or instance of deluding.
    2.the state of being deluded.
    3.a false belief or opinion: delusions of grandeur.
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    —Synonyms
    1. deception. See illusion.

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    Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    2/3 of the people want healthcare reform, that tells me that republicans don't, as ever, give a crap about what the public wants.
    Health care reform is needed. Saying 2/3 of the people want reform is misleading. The question is does the 2/3 of the people want this healthcare? I would say not. At least not me.
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

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    Re: President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Ca

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    Can you say Hypocrisy? See it in action.

    YouTube- Democrats on Reconciliation when Repubs held the majority.flv

    President Obama to Say Democrats Will Use Reconciliation to Pass Senate Health Care Reform Fix, If Not Given Up or Down Vote - Political Punch
    White House officials tell ABC News that in his remarks tomorrow President Obama will indicate a willingness to work with Republicans on some issue to get a health care reform bill passed but will suggest that if it is necessary, Democrats will use the controversial "reconciliation" rules requiring only 51 Senate votes to pass the "fix" to the Senate bill, as opposed to the 60 votes to stop a filibuster and proceed to a vote on a bill.

    Lawmakers on Capitol Hill have been awaiting the president’s remarks direction on how health care reform will proceed.

    In his remarks, scheduled to be at the White House, the president will paint a picture of what he will say will happen without a health care reform bill – skyrocketing premiums, everyone at the mercy of the insurance industry as recently seen with the 39% premium increases proposed by Anthem Blue Cross in California.

    He will note that the “fixed” bill will include the proposal for a new "Health Insurance Rate Authority" to set guidelines for reasonable rate increases. If proposed premium increases are not justifiable per those Health Insurance Rate Authority guidelines, the Health and Human Services Secretary or state regulators could block them.

    The plan to pass the bill includes having the House of Representatives pass the Democratic Senate health care reform legislation as well as a second bill containing various “fixes.”
    [/QUOTE]



    I just wish they would call it what it is and not label it "health care reform"


    Reform is the wrong word.

    Reform would do us some good.

    This bill has little to none of that in it.
    Thank you

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