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Thread: Health Care Summit Squabbles

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    Health Care Summit Squabbles

    Who Lied? Who told the truth?

    Health Care Summit Squabbles | FactCheck.org

    ■Sen. Lamar Alexander said premiums will go up for “millions” under the Senate bill and president’s plan, while President Barack Obama said families buying the same coverage they have now would pay much less. Both were misleading. The Congressional Budget Office said premiums for those in the group market wouldn’t change significantly, while the average premium for those who buy their own coverage would go up.
    ■Alexander also said “50 percent of doctors won’t see new [Medicaid] patients.” But a 2008 survey says only 28 percent refuse to take any new Medicaid patients.
    ■Sen. Harry Reid cited a poll that said 58 percent would be “angry or disappointed” if health care overhaul doesn’t pass. True, but respondents in the poll were also split 43-43 on whether they supported the legislation that is currently being proposed.
    ■Obama repeated an inflated claim we’ve covered before. He said insured families pay about $1,000 a year in their premiums to cover costs for the uninsured. That’s a disputed figure from an advocacy group. Other researchers put the figure at about $200.
    ■Sen. Tom Coburn said “the government is responsible for 60 percent” of U.S. health spending. But that dubious figure includes lost tax revenue due to charitable contributions to hospitals and other questionable items. The real figure is about 47 percent.
    ■Reid said “since 1981 reconciliation has been used 21 times. Most of it has been used by Republicans.” That’s true, but scholars say using it to pass health care legislation would be the most ambitious use to date of this filibuster-avoiding maneuver.
    ■Rep. Charles Boustany said the main GOP-backed bill would reduce premium costs by “up to about 10 percent.” According to CBO, that’s true for the small group market, which accounts for only 15 percent of premiums. But premiums in the large group market would stay the same or go down by as much as 3 percent.

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    Re: Health Care Summit Squabbles

    It ain't 43-43 on the legislation. It's 56-41 against, including 45-23 against if you use "strongly" in the mix.

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...th_care_reform
    Last edited by Erod; 02-26-10 at 06:32 PM.

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    Re: Health Care Summit Squabbles

    Reality has a well-known liberal bias!
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    Re: Health Care Summit Squabbles

    It is unfortunate that the will of the people is now meaningless to the Majority of the party currently in charge.

    The hypocrites are now running the asylum. It was just a short time back in 2005 that Senators Obama, Clinton, Shumer, Reid, Feinstein, Biden, Dodd, Baucus, all railed against the Republicans and made their case for why the nuclear opposition was wrong unfair and all the damage using it would cause and the Senate will become no better than the House and blah blah blah BS.

    Now it's okay because the new Messiah says it is.

    What's that I'm lying they never said any of that. It's just something i heard some talk show guy saying.

    Well I am one of those guys but I do my home work and take no ones word without proof. So here it's is.

    Breitbart.tv Obama & Dems in ‘05: 51 Vote ‘Nuclear Option’ Is ‘Arrogant’ Power Grab Against the Founders’ Intent

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    Re: Health Care Summit Squabbles

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    It is unfortunate that the will of the people is now meaningless to the Majority of the party currently in charge.
    How is the will of the people meaningless when a majority of our representatives do what we elected them to do???

    Reconciliation has been used widely in the past, especially by Republicans. Were all of these votes against the will of the people?

    "Despite their howls against Obama, Republicans employed the same procedure to pass major Bush agenda items (which were supported by all four aforementioned Senators):

    – The 2001 Bush Tax Cuts [HR 1836, 3/26/01]
    – The 2003 Bush Tax Cuts [HR 2, 3/23/03]
    – Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005 [HR 4297, 5/11/06]
    – The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 [H. Con Res. 95, 12/21/05]"

    "While Republicans seem to be experiencing a particular form of political amnesia from the Bush years, they ought to be reminded that budget reconciliation has been used by several other presidents, including Clinton and Reagan. In fact, Republicans — with Bond and Gregg among the leaders of the charge — were instrumental in pushing through key provisions of their signature legislative agenda, the Contract with America, using budget reconciliation.

    A list of instances where reconciliation was implemented:

    Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1980
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981
    Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1982
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1983
    Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1986
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1989
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993
    Balanced Budget Act of 1995 (vetoed)
    Personal Responsibility and Budget Reconciliation Act of 1996
    Balanced Budget Act of 1997
    Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997
    Taxpayer Refund and Relief Act of 1999 (vetoed)
    Marriage Tax Relief Act of 2000 (vetoed)
    Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001
    Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003
    The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005
    Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005"
    Think Progress GOP Senators Who Used Budget Reconciliation To Pass Bush Agenda Items Now Calling It ‘Chicago Style Politics’
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    Re: Health Care Summit Squabbles

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Sen. Lamar Alexander said premiums will go up for “millions” under the Senate bill and president’s plan, while President Barack Obama said families buying the same coverage they have now would pay much less. Both were misleading. The Congressional Budget Office said premiums for those in the group market wouldn’t change significantly, while the average premium for those who buy their own coverage would go up.
    Not sure how Alexander was being "misleading" -- 18 million people in the US buy their own coverage. Going by the CBO findings, it is true that "millions" will see premiums go up.

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    Re: Health Care Summit Squabbles

    Oh look....

    Tax and or budget – The 2001 Bush Tax Cuts [HR 1836, 3/26/01]
    Tax and or budget – The 2003 Bush Tax Cuts [HR 2, 3/23/03]
    Tax and or budget – Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005 [HR 4297, 5/11/06]
    Tax and or budget – The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 [H. Con Res. 95, 12/21/05]"

    Changes to reconciliation I think Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1980
    Tax and or budget Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981
    Tax and or budget Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982
    Tax and or budget Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1982
    Tax and or budget Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1983
    Tax and or budget Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985
    Tax and or budget Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1986
    Tax and or budget Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987
    Tax and or budget Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1989
    Tax and or budget Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990
    Tax and or budget Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993
    Tax and or budget Balanced Budget Act of 1995 (vetoed)
    Tax and or budget Personal Responsibility and Budget Reconciliation Act of 1996
    Tax and or budget Balanced Budget Act of 1997
    Tax and or budget Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997
    Tax and or budget Taxpayer Refund and Relief Act of 1999 (vetoed)
    Tax and or budget Marriage Tax Relief Act of 2000 (vetoed)
    Tax and or budget Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001
    Tax and or budget Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003
    Tax and or budget The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005
    Tax and or budget Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005"

    While definitely there are some within that grouping that stretches and bends the notion of reconcilliation and I would be against its use in such situations, none of them are even close in comparison to the Health Care bill which does not simply stretch and bend the purposes of reconciliation but shatters it.

    Funny how no one is using the term the "nuclear option". The Dems are going to use the "Nuclear Option". I mean, we heard that all the time when talking about using Senate Rules to do a majority vote for Republicans in past years and yet somehow such a negative connotation never seems to be how its described here. Odd that....

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    Re: Health Care Summit Squabbles

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Oh look....

    Tax and or budget – The 2001 Bush Tax Cuts [HR 1836, 3/26/01]
    Tax and or budget – The 2003 Bush Tax Cuts [HR 2, 3/23/03]
    Tax and or budget – Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005 [HR 4297, 5/11/06]
    Tax and or budget – The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 [H. Con Res. 95, 12/21/05]"

    Changes to reconciliation I think Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1980
    Tax and or budget Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981
    Tax and or budget Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982
    Tax and or budget Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1982
    Tax and or budget Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1983
    Tax and or budget Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985
    Tax and or budget Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1986
    Tax and or budget Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987
    Tax and or budget Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1989
    Tax and or budget Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990
    Tax and or budget Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993
    Tax and or budget Balanced Budget Act of 1995 (vetoed)
    Tax and or budget Personal Responsibility and Budget Reconciliation Act of 1996
    Tax and or budget Balanced Budget Act of 1997
    Tax and or budget Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997
    Tax and or budget Taxpayer Refund and Relief Act of 1999 (vetoed)
    Tax and or budget Marriage Tax Relief Act of 2000 (vetoed)
    Tax and or budget Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001
    Tax and or budget Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003
    Tax and or budget The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005
    Tax and or budget Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005"

    While definitely there are some within that grouping that stretches and bends the notion of reconcilliation and I would be against its use in such situations, none of them are even close in comparison to the Health Care bill which does not simply stretch and bend the purposes of reconciliation but shatters it.

    Funny how no one is using the term the "nuclear option". The Dems are going to use the "Nuclear Option". I mean, we heard that all the time when talking about using Senate Rules to do a majority vote for Republicans in past years and yet somehow such a negative connotation never seems to be how its described here. Odd that....
    My understanding of reconciliation is that it is typically used for budget changes and the substance of law.
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    Re: Health Care Summit Squabbles

    ***** Just one possibly overriding point though. IF we were in a much better economy than the present AND if certain sectors were capeable of really bouncing back - and IF we weren't running huge defecit's/debt's - THEN a massive move like this MIGHT be feasible to cover the loopholes some are always sliuding thru and to try to cover every last soul - not that THAT will ever truly happen

    ****** However it was obvious from the day Obama took the oath that as a result of the crisis of September 2008 that the economy would at least spiral down further. To believe otherwise would be foolish - so WHY the near TOTAL focus on this massive bill unless the real priority has been all along not to cure a problem - but to alter the overall societal balance and "stick it to" those who stil have a degree of economic flexibility.

    ****** In this rotten economy the focus should be job creation in the Private sector. Once you are in double digits all the best intentions need to be set aside to try to stop the slide and turn things around. This clearly is not Barry's focus because he assumes that once this turkey gets thru in any form - he gets the praise - and if the SCOTUS eventually dissembles it - well that's years away.
    Last edited by Zinc Route; 03-02-10 at 11:16 AM.

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    Re: Health Care Summit Squabbles

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    How is the will of the people meaningless when a majority of our representatives do what we elected them to do???

    Reconciliation has been used widely in the past, especially by Republicans. Were all of these votes against the will of the people?

    "Despite their howls against Obama, Republicans employed the same procedure to pass major Bush agenda items (which were supported by all four aforementioned Senators):

    – The 2001 Bush Tax Cuts [HR 1836, 3/26/01]
    – The 2003 Bush Tax Cuts [HR 2, 3/23/03]
    – Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005 [HR 4297, 5/11/06]
    – The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 [H. Con Res. 95, 12/21/05]"

    "While Republicans seem to be experiencing a particular form of political amnesia from the Bush years, they ought to be reminded that budget reconciliation has been used by several other presidents, including Clinton and Reagan. In fact, Republicans — with Bond and Gregg among the leaders of the charge — were instrumental in pushing through key provisions of their signature legislative agenda, the Contract with America, using budget reconciliation.

    A list of instances where reconciliation was implemented:

    Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1980
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981
    Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1982
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1983
    Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1986
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1989
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993
    Balanced Budget Act of 1995 (vetoed)
    Personal Responsibility and Budget Reconciliation Act of 1996
    Balanced Budget Act of 1997
    Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997
    Taxpayer Refund and Relief Act of 1999 (vetoed)
    Marriage Tax Relief Act of 2000 (vetoed)
    Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001
    Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003
    The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005
    Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005"
    Think Progress GOP Senators Who Used Budget Reconciliation To Pass Bush Agenda Items Now Calling It ‘Chicago Style Politics’
    Wow..... look at that....... all of those examples are for financial items, just like reconciliation was designed for..... not something like the health care take over.
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