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Thread: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

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    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by DiavoTheMiavo View Post
    I can see it too. A form of capitalism that would have lawyers camped out in ER parking lots trying to stir up malpractice law suits. Until poor people stop using the ER as a clinic, turning folks away would be a lawsuit waiting to happen.
    I disagree, there are plenty of "Doc in the Box" facilities around the U.S. that will happily serve these patients, and if they were being turned away from the E.R. to a clinic located in or near the hospital, the patients would likely use it.

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    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Yep, exactly what they're doing at Michelle Obama's hospital - but because it's Michelle Obama's hospital, it's socialist patient-dumping death panels or whatever.

    I never understood the whole 'death panel' thing (why the comment was made and why people jumped on it like they did) - I've rallied for years that the ER shouldn't be stuck between a rock and a hard place because they are required by LAW to see every patient that comes in the door - they're not allowed to turned anyone away for any reason.

    They're currently not even allowed to redirect someone to the walkin clinic even if it's just right next door, I don't think - if you GO to the ER you must be SEEN by the ER, which is bull****.

    My mom works at a Children's Hospital and people complain all the time. . .this following quote is actually from an old review that was listed on yellow pages - it's since been bumped off the review list by several positive reviews that were posted after it, but it roiled my blood - I took personal offense and save it on my computer for this exact debate purpose.

    ER & clinic lacks quality care‎ - Mary M.‎ - Jul 26, 2008
    I have taken my kids to the clinic for ear aches or sinus infections and it takes forever to get in and out. They are sooo slow. I was not impressed by the ER doctors or care ...‎
    See - she took her children numerous times for non-emergencies and then has the balls to wonder WHY they had to wait to be seen!

    This particular Children's hospital DOES have a walk-in non-emergency clinic. It's open 24/7 - I've taken the kids to it countless time. THAT is where she should take her children, you have to call ahead for an appointment but it is the place to go for adequate non-emergency care.

    However, the ER cannot send patients next door, it's illegal.

    It's bull****. The ER shouldn't be overburdened by sniffy noses and gooey eyes. That's what regular doctors and walk-in clinics ARE for.
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    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I never understood the whole 'death panel' thing (why the comment was made and why people jumped on it like they did) - I've rallied for years that the ER shouldn't be stuck between a rock and a hard place because they are required by LAW to see every patient that comes in the door - they're not allowed to turned anyone away for any reason.

    They're currently not even allowed to redirect someone to the walkin clinic even if it's just right next door, I don't think - if you GO to the ER you must be SEEN by the ER, which is bull****.
    Could be a liability thing. What if it really was an emergency?

    The ER people should be able to check a patient and THEN send them away after they determine they belong somewhere else.

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    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Could be a liability thing. What if it really was an emergency?

    The ER people should be able to check a patient and THEN send them away after they determine they belong somewhere else.
    That's where tort reform comes in. A lot of people are sent to the ER unnecessarily by doctors in a game of liability CYA.

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    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Goyboy View Post
    I would rather that you apologize for Al Franken.

    Now back to the main topic . . .

    ER visits aren't just costly to hospitals. They are also costly to patients. So, if there is a cheaper alternative to an ER, then why not direct non-emergency cases to the alternative?

    No law requires them to treat them in the ER. So, they could redirect. However, many who are there wouldn't be there if they could pay, even a cheaper alternative. So, this about the ER actually meeting a need not provided by the market in any other venue. And there's no reason to think the market ever will. Remember, this isn't new. The problem was there even before laws that ERs couldn't turn away emergencies.

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    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    I wonder how effective it would be if the nurse told the patient "If you get your hurt finger treated at the emergency room, it will cost X, but if you go to this cheaper clinic, it will cost Y".

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    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I wonder how effective it would be if the nurse told the patient "If you get your hurt finger treated at the emergency room, it will cost X, but if you go to this cheaper clinic, it will cost Y".
    If I'm not paying for it, wouldn't mean much.

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    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Could be a liability thing. What if it really was an emergency?

    The ER people should be able to check a patient and THEN send them away after they determine they belong somewhere else.
    That's the point - the current system is the problem ,there is not indepth adequate triage at most ER's. A few nurses are on staff to manage the incoming patients - but they ALL must be admitted to the ER even after they've determined their lives are not at stake at the moment.
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    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax8 View Post
    Your anger is obviously misguided. Physician rates increase due to decreasing reimbursements from Medicare/Medicaid (by the way we're taking another 21.1% cut in these rates in two weeks). M/M is a government run entity, and if this is what we have to look forward to than we've got some serious problems ahead in terms of viability of healthcare in this country.
    Malpractice insurance premiums are up 60% since 2000.

    Right there: government and lawyers. To primary causes of healthcare cost increase. If physicians solely practiced medicine with patients covered by medicare/medicaid, they would be unable to pay office overhead and malpractice insurance and then take enough home as salary amounting to more than minimum wage base on a 50 hr work week. Just for reference, I work between 70 and 90 hours a week.

    I agree, physician fees have gone up, but take home salary has dropped precipitously over the last 10 years. i.e. we make substantially less. However, payouts gained by plaintiffs in frivolous litigation has never been higher.
    Don't take it personally, Vader tends to label everyone/thing that he doesn't like as fascist/reich-wing/evil.

    Thanks for your contributions on this - it's always useful to have a physician's perspective on the topic. Welcome to DP!
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    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax8 View Post
    Your anger is obviously misguided. Physician rates increase due to decreasing reimbursements from Medicare/Medicaid (by the way we're taking another 21.1% cut in these rates in two weeks). M/M is a government run entity, and if this is what we have to look forward to than we've got some serious problems ahead in terms of viability of healthcare in this country.
    Malpractice insurance premiums are up 60% since 2000.

    Right there: government and lawyers. To primary causes of healthcare cost increase. If physicians solely practiced medicine with patients covered by medicare/medicaid, they would be unable to pay office overhead and malpractice insurance and then take enough home as salary amounting to more than minimum wage base on a 50 hr work week. Just for reference, I work between 70 and 90 hours a week.

    I agree, physician fees have gone up, but take home salary has dropped precipitously over the last 10 years. i.e. we make substantially less. However, payouts gained by plaintiffs in frivolous litigation has never been higher.

    This is a very good point.
    Medicaid in my state only use to reimburse 15% of the actual cost for my children's dental visits (as just one example - that was 10 years ago).

    15% isn't even enough to cover the cost of the fluoride, Novocaine or toothpaste used during the appointment. . . add to that exrays and other things ususally done at a checkup.

    Not to forget that medicaid/care doesn't cover some procedures. My oldest son was born with a periodontal disease and medicaid refused to cover any part of his surgery. The overall cost for the procedure was over $5,000 and the hospital was nice enough to actually write it off.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 03-02-10 at 03:42 PM.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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