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Thread: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

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    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Tort reform is a nonsensical attempt to prevent unscrupulous big business scumbags from being held completely responsible for the damage their greed causes.

    In three words: Mindless Republican Bull****!
    Are you pooling physicians into the "big business scumbags" group? Because they're the primary defendant in frivolous lawsuits.

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    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    If hospitals were allowed to turn away non-emergency cases, I can easily see capitalism stepping into the void and filling it.
    I can see it too. A form of capitalism that would have lawyers camped out in ER parking lots trying to stir up malpractice law suits. Until poor people stop using the ER as a clinic, turning folks away would be a lawsuit waiting to happen.

    How do we get people to stop using the ER as a clinic?
    The much less expensive practise of preventive medicine.
    How do we do that?
    Everyone has health insurance

    Preventative medicine is the best way to keep health care costs down. Catch a problem before it turns into a costly emergency room visit. Until then, those with health insurance will continue to pay for those who don't. HMO's PPO's and every other kind of "O" don't want that though. Why?
    Because the status quo is what earns them huge profits. ER visits are not bankrupting folks, organized insurance companies are.

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    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    You should probably direct your question to the poster who made the statement.
    I did. And you chose to pick it up.


    There are plenty of public clinics to handle cases who cannot pay much. The problem (in many cases, based on experience working in public hospitals) is that these patients don't really want to fill out the paperwork and wait. In a public health system, people will pay with their time.
    How does this answer the question of how to classify the cases into real emergency or non-emergency?

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    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax8 View Post
    Are you pooling physicians into the "big business scumbags" group? Because they're the primary defendant in frivolous lawsuits.
    Many doctors are very right wing and go out of their way to charge exessive fees. At one point and time there were to rates for medical services (a) Insurance rate; and (b) cash rate (which was usually less than the former).

    Doctors did nothing when the insurance companies lobbied for laws that made this process illegal (because people were paying a cheaper cash price and they didn't like that.)

    Some doctors charge $600.00 FOR A SINGLE OFFICE VISIT. This is bull****. It's excessive and it shows a lack of regard for the common working man. It makes care prohibitively expensive.

    Doctors in this group deserve no mercy. Doctors in the other group do not usually find themselves on the receiving end of a lawsuit.

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    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Goyboy View Post
    Wouldn't it be helpful to post the actual EMTALA laws for everyone to see?

    Here are excerpts from EMTALA:

    TITLE 42, CHAPTER 7, SUBCHAPTER XVIII, Part E, § 1395dd

    (a) Medical screening requirement

    In the case of a hospital that has a hospital emergency department, if any individual (whether or not eligible for benefits under this subchapter) comes to the emergency department and a request is made on the individual’s behalf for examination or treatment for a medical condition, the hospital must provide for an appropriate medical screening examination within the capability of the hospital’s emergency department, including ancillary services routinely available to the emergency department, to determine whether or not an emergency medical condition (within the meaning of subsection (e)(1) of this section) exists.

    (b) Necessary stabilizing treatment for emergency medical conditions and labor

    (1) In general
    If any individual (whether or not eligible for benefits under this subchapter) comes to a hospital and the hospital determines that the individual has an emergency medical condition, the hospital must provide either—
    (A) within the staff and facilities available at the hospital, for such further medical examination and such treatment as may be required to stabilize the medical condition, or
    (B) for transfer of the individual to another medical facility in accordance with subsection (c) of this section.


    [Sections c and d skipped for the sake of brevity.]


    e) Definitions
    In this section:
    (1) The term “emergency medical condition” means—
    (A) a medical condition manifesting itself by acute symptoms of sufficient severity (including severe pain) such that the absence of immediate medical attention could reasonably be expected to result in—
    (i) placing the health of the individual (or, with respect to a pregnant woman, the health of the woman or her unborn child) in serious jeopardy,
    (ii) serious impairment to bodily functions, or
    (iii) serious dysfunction of any bodily organ or part; or

    (B) with respect to a pregnant woman who is having contractions—
    (i) that there is inadequate time to effect a safe transfer to another hospital before delivery, or
    (ii) that transfer may pose a threat to the health or safety of the woman or the unborn child.


    If I am not mistaken, nothing in EMTALA requires an emergency room staff to treat a patient for a non-emergency problem once the emergency room staff has determined that the patient has a non-emergency problem.

    If I am correct, then Pawlenty is mistaken about EMTALA needing changed.
    You are correct.

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    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Many doctors are very right wing and go out of their way to charge exessive fees. At one point and time there were to rates for medical services (a) Insurance rate; and (b) cash rate (which was usually less than the former).

    Doctors did nothing when the insurance companies lobbied for laws that made this process illegal (because people were paying a cheaper cash price and they didn't like that.)

    Some doctors charge $600.00 FOR A SINGLE OFFICE VISIT. This is bull****. It's excessive and it shows a lack of regard for the common working man. It makes care prohibitively expensive.

    Doctors in this group deserve no mercy. Doctors in the other group do not usually find themselves on the receiving end of a lawsuit.
    Your anger is obviously misguided. Physician rates increase due to decreasing reimbursements from Medicare/Medicaid (by the way we're taking another 21.1% cut in these rates in two weeks). M/M is a government run entity, and if this is what we have to look forward to than we've got some serious problems ahead in terms of viability of healthcare in this country.
    Malpractice insurance premiums are up 60% since 2000.

    Right there: government and lawyers. To primary causes of healthcare cost increase. If physicians solely practiced medicine with patients covered by medicare/medicaid, they would be unable to pay office overhead and malpractice insurance and then take enough home as salary amounting to more than minimum wage base on a 50 hr work week. Just for reference, I work between 70 and 90 hours a week.

    I agree, physician fees have gone up, but take home salary has dropped precipitously over the last 10 years. i.e. we make substantially less. However, payouts gained by plaintiffs in frivolous litigation has never been higher.

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    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    As a Minnesotan I would like to apologize for Pawlenty. We're not really sure how that asshole got into office.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    As a Minnesotan I would like to apologize for Pawlenty. We're not really sure how that asshole got into office.
    I would rather that you apologize for Al Franken.

    Now back to the main topic . . .

    ER visits aren't just costly to hospitals. They are also costly to patients. So, if there is a cheaper alternative to an ER, then why not direct non-emergency cases to the alternative?
    The height of wisdom is to say, "I do not know." -Socrates

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    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Goyboy View Post
    I would rather that you apologize for Al Franken.

    Now back to the main topic . . .

    ER visits aren't just costly to hospitals. They are also costly to patients. So, if there is a cheaper alternative to an ER, then why not direct non-emergency cases to the alternative?
    Exactly.

    The ER should be steered from and left free to deal with serious emergencies - if a patient that was directed to the neighboring walk-in clinic turns out to be an emergency then the ER is right next door to readmit quickly.

    It should be In = paperwork, check you in = analyze you = directed to emergency or non-emergency area as needed.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 03-01-10 at 10:01 AM.
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    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
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    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Exactly.

    The ER should be steered from and left free to deal with serious emergencies - if a patient that was directed to the neighboring walk-in clinic turns out to be an emergency then the ER is right next door to readmit quickly.

    It should be In = paperwork, check you in = analyze you = directed to emergency or non-emergency area as needed.
    Yep, exactly what they're doing at Michelle Obama's hospital - but because it's Michelle Obama's hospital, it's socialist patient-dumping death panels or whatever.

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