Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 105

Thread: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

  1. #11
    Professor
    CrusaderRabbit08's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Seen
    05-13-10 @ 02:41 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,022

    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    If hospitals were allowed to turn away non-emergency cases, I can easily see capitalism stepping into the void and filling it.
    Why wasn't that done before ER's were forced into this?

  2. #12
    Guru
    BWG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    South Coast
    Last Seen
    12-04-17 @ 11:59 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,203

    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    I used to to work in a hospital that did employ this to a certain degree. When a patient came in the ER and their malady was not an emergency, they were asked to pay a fee up front. The patients were triaged, a social worker was consulted, and it stopped alot of the clinic traffic in the emergency room. There are many minor emergency clinics where you can be seen for much less than a hospital emergency room, where the base cost is about 250 dollars, as opposed to 50-75 dollars for a minor emergency clinic.
    There have been several urgent care facilities open in my area in the last few years and I believe they take some of the load off of emergency rooms, but not all.

    They take cash, credit cards or insurance. Problem is, if one doesn't have cash, credit card or insurance they go to the emergency room and wait until they're seen.

    The thing is we're not going to turn away an injured or ill person just because they have no money.
    “We just simply don’t know how to govern” - Rep. Steve Womack (R-AR) a member of the House Budget Committee

  3. #13
    Guru
    nonpareil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    07-04-15 @ 10:36 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,108

    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Before anybody starts making statements about Pawlenty being a heartless Conservative, let's set the ground rules for this discussion, and get it straight on what Pawlenty proposes. He is talking about minor medical conditions, which are not emergencies.

    1) In that context, I don't see Pawlenty's proposal as heartless, but as a realistic idea. Emergency room care for minor conditions is one of the things that his bankrupting our medical care system.

    2) But is Pawlenty's "realistic" idea actually realistic? I don't think so. Minor medical conditions frequently lead to major hospitalizations. So what is the better way to cut costs in the medical system? Turn away minor conditions, to have people admitted to hospitals for long and very expensive stays? Or to keep things as they are, and treat those minor conditions before they flare up and cost orders of magnitude more money? I believe that the second one is best, and ultimately more cost effective.

    In the end, I don't see Pawlenty's proposal to be heartless at all. But I do see it to be poorly thought out, from an economic standpoint. Is there a third solution somewhere out there that we haven't looked at? Some would say that a public option would be that third option, but I disagree. Whatever solution we come up with must not take money from peoples' pockets without their consent. Or should it? If it does, then do we slide down the slippery slope to Socialism? If we do, then is this still America, or do we begin to say goodbye to a system of government that has has worked for more than 2 centuries?

    These are all very perplexing questions, and I would like to hear some thought out answers from everybody on this issue. So, in regard to what I have posted, the discussion in this thread should be as follows:

    Our health care system - Where do we go from here?

    PLEASE - NO TROLLING. If you only come here to bash Bush, Obama, or anybody else, while not offering constructive ideas and / or constructive criticism, then please leave this thread, and do not post. I will be asking moderators to thread ban those who do not stick to the topic at hand, and the discussion on it, along with those who display disruptive behavior.

    Article is here.

    Mandating that hospitals accept cases where they can't determine whether the "customer" can actually pay for treatment is "tak[ing] money from peoples' pockets without their consent". When some of those people can't pay, the hospital makes up for it by overcharging others who can.

    I don't think anyone here would accept the government mandating a shop to hand over goods to customers without being satisfied that they can pay. If hospital is a private business, it should be able to make sales decisions without coercion from the government such as the ER law.
    Last edited by nonpareil; 02-25-10 at 01:28 PM.

  4. #14
    Guru
    nonpareil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    07-04-15 @ 10:36 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,108

    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Actually, it may not be a bad idea to give the doctor or nurse the ability to look at a case and say "this can wait until you go to your family doctor, it is not something that needs to be treated right now."

    Or maybe another way to approach this would be "here's a $1000 surcharge for wasting our time and insurance won't cover it." fee.

    Whatever the method is, I wouldn't mind if emergency rooms had the ability to turn away minor cases. However, it means that it will fall on the facilities to ensure accuracy in their diagnosis.
    = Number of lawsuits ^ + malpractice insurance premium ^ + Doctors would be too scared of being sued if the person being turned away turn out to have something serious.
    Last edited by nonpareil; 02-25-10 at 01:28 PM.

  5. #15
    Guru
    nonpareil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    07-04-15 @ 10:36 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,108

    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    If hospitals were allowed to turn away non-emergency cases, I can easily see capitalism stepping into the void and filling it.
    And how do you see this happening? What will fill the void? Because in my experience, nothing replaces government provided free health care for the poor. If they can't pay, no private hospital will accept them. When the public hospital which is already under-equipped (and basically a lab for new medical students) turn them away, they take the person home to die.
    Last edited by nonpareil; 02-25-10 at 01:27 PM.

  6. #16
    Sage
    lizzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    between two worlds
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,581

    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    When the public hospital which is already under-equipped (and basically a lab for new medical students) turn them away, they take the person home to die.
    We not talking about emergency or critical cases here. It's the cases that should be in the clincs that are the issue.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  7. #17
    Doesn't go below juicy
    tacomancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cleveland
    Last Seen
    05-20-16 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    31,781

    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    Mandating that hospitals accept cases where they can't determine whether the "customer" can actually pay for treatment is "tak[ing] money from peoples' pockets without their consent". When some of those people can't pay, the hospital makes up for it by overcharging others who can.

    I don't think anyone here would accept the government mandating a shop to hand over goods to customers without being satisfied that they can pay. If hospital is a private business, it should be able to make sales decisions without coercion from the government such as the ER law.
    Lives are generally considered to be more important than money. But for non emergency cases, people should be encouraged to use less expensive treatment methods, such as the county health department or some other public clinic if they are unable to pay a private practitioner.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 02-25-10 at 02:01 PM.

  8. #18
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Actually, it may not be a bad idea to give the doctor or nurse the ability to look at a case and say "this can wait until you go to your family doctor, it is not something that needs to be treated right now."

    Or maybe another way to approach this would be "here's a $1000 surcharge for wasting our time and insurance won't cover it." fee.

    Whatever the method is, I wouldn't mind if emergency rooms had the ability to turn away minor cases. However, it means that it will fall on the facilities to ensure accuracy in their diagnosis.
    Those are some great ideas.

    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #19
    Professor
    CrusaderRabbit08's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Seen
    05-13-10 @ 02:41 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,022

    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Lives are generally considered to be more important than money. But for non emergency cases, people should be encouraged to use less expensive treatment methods, such as the county health department or some other public clinic if they are unable to pay a private practitioner.
    That doesn't solve the problem for after hours treatment. Not every non emergency can wait 12+ hours for the doctor's office to open. We need some type of after hours program to take the burden off the ER's.

  10. #20
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Pawlenty: Let ER's turn away patients to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    True that, but there would be a gap in between hospitals ceasing to treat non emergencies and the market filling the void. What do we do in the meantime?
    As a good number don't pay, what market caters to that customer base? Also, why hasn't the market done so already, as they know poorer people are seeking care? The need is there no matter what the ER's do.

Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •