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Thread: Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

  1. #21
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    Re: Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    Ever been to Gary?
    If you sell military or state secrets to a foreign nation, you are a traitor....
    If you serve in a foreign military while we are at war with that country, you are a traitor....
    Right.

    And who establishes guilt? Maybe I wasn't there teaching people how to shoot rifles. Maybe I took a wrong turn and found their camp by accident. I was lost, and one of the dudes there went to get a map to show me how to get to town. While he was fetching the map, I watched some guys firing rifles at some targets for a bit. I got the map, and drove back to town.

    The point is, I have rights. Intelligence officers shouldn't be the ones determining my innocence or guilt.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    Then why did you highlight a section that does NOT apply to these guys? What's that all about?
    Why didn't you read the entire law? What's that all about?

    Technically, the Americans that were fighting with the Taliban were,

    (3) entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state if

    (A) such armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the United States,


    since the Taliban was the controlling government of Afghanistan at the time went to war.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #23
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    Re: Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Why didn't you read the entire law? What's that all about?

    Technically, the Americans that were fighting with the Taliban were,

    (3) entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state if

    (A) such armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the United States,


    since the Taliban was the controlling government of Afghanistan at the time went to war.
    Then they have to be treated as POW's when captured. Why aren't they?

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    Re: Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    Then they have to be treated as POW's when captured. Why aren't they?
    Because according to the Geneva Convention, they don't fall under the definition of a legal combatant, nor is the Taliban a signatory of the Geneva Convention and only signatories of the Geneva Convention rate protections under the articles of the Geneva Convention and even if the Taliban fighters did rate protections under the Geneva Convention, American citizens fighting with the Taliban wouldn't, because those persons would fall under the Geneva Convention's definition of a mercenary and mercenaries aren't protected by the Geneva Convention...that's why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  5. #25
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    Re: Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Because according to the Geneva Convention, they don't fall under the definition of a legal combatant, nor is the Taliban a signatory of the Geneva Convention and only signatories of the Geneva Convention rate protections under the articles of the Geneva Convention..
    Signatory status matters not:

    Articles 82 to 97 covers the implementation of this convention. Articles 82 and 83 contained two important clauses. "In case, in time of war, one of the belligerents is not a party to the Convention, its provisions shall nevertheless remain in force as between the belligerents who are parties thereto." and that the provisions of this convention continue to cover prisoners of war after hostilities up to their repatriation unless the belligerents agree otherwise or a more favorable regime replaces it.

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    Re: Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    Signatory status matters not:
    The Tallies would still have to qualify as a legal combatants, which they do not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Tallies would still have to qualify as a legal combatants, which they do not.
    Based on what?

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    Re: Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    Based on what?
    Based on the Third Geneva Convention:

    Article 4 defines prisoners of war to include:

    4.1.1 Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict and members of militias of such armed forces

    4.1.2 Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, provided that they fulfill all of the following conditions:

    that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

    that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance (there are limited exceptions to this among countries who observe the 1977 Protocol I);

    that of carrying arms openly;

    that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

    4.1.3 Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.

    4.1.4 Civilians who have non-combat support roles with the military and who carry a valid identity card issued by the military they support.

    4.1.5 Merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.

    4.1.6 Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

    4.3 makes explicit that Article 33 takes precedence for the treatment of medical personnel of the enemy and chaplains of the enemy.
    The Tallies don't follow the international rules of war, carry ID cards, nor wear uniforms, or insignia distinguishing themselves as combatants and not civilian non-combatants.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

    Article 47.-Mercenaries

    1. A mercenary shall not have the right to be a combatant or a prisoner of war.

    2. A mercenary is any person who:

    ( a ) Is specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;

    ( b ) Does, in fact, take a direct part in the hostilities;

    ( c ) Is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;

    ( d ) Is neither a national of a Party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a Party to the conflict;

    ( e ) Is not a member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict; and

    ( f ) Has not been sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces.

    Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol 1)
    ===========================
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  10. #30
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    Re: Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I agree that we shouldn't de-citizen people under any circumstances. That would be completely unprecedented in the United States, and I *really* don't think we should go down that path. I could easily see this being abused.

    And it would violate Article 15 of the UN Declaration of Human Rights, to which the United States is a signatory.
    Not to mention the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th Amendments.

    But don’t worry about our constitution, the way it’s upheld these days, we may as well not have one.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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