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Thread: Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

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    Re: Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    Revoke their citizenship with a bullet, it will save paperwork.....
    Treason should be punished by death, every time, no if ands or buts.....
    Lindh should have been executed.....
    Partisan, I officially am accusing you of Treason. I saw you with schematics to the city hall of Gary, Indiana with red X's written in crayon that says "PUT BOMBS HERE."

    Let's say an intelligence officer gets that little bit off one of their data mining computers. Being near the end of his shift, he just tosses you into the "kill this dude" pile.

    Forwarded to SOCOM and before you know it, a predator missile comes through your door.

    Obviously my scenario is rather exaggerated, but the point is that who do we allow to decide what is or is not treason? Many of you right-winged crackpots are probably pretty concerned about the idea that President Obama could personally apply this label to you! Maybe he's gotten the impression that people opposing healthcare reform are in favor of policies that CAUSE THE DEATH OF AMERICANS. If you're causing the death of Americans, surely you're a traitor!

    We don't let the military decide these things for a very good reason.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

    I agree that we shouldn't de-citizen people under any circumstances. That would be completely unprecedented in the United States, and I *really* don't think we should go down that path. I could easily see this being abused.

    And it would violate Article 15 of the UN Declaration of Human Rights, to which the United States is a signatory.
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    Re: Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists | TPMCafe




    I am really, really not comfortable with revoking citizenship under any circumstances. Even if they are standing in the middle of a terrorist training camp teaching people how to shoot a rifle. Nor am I comfortable with "kill orders" being issued for any Americans.

    I mean, if an airstrike hits the camp and an American happens to be there, well, it's their own damn fault for being there. But deliberately targeting Americans for assassination? Argh.

    "Capture if able" orders are fine. Bag em and tag em, stick them on a plane and send them home to answer for their crimes to a jury of their peers. If a guy shoots at the soldiers trying to apprehend him, well, that's a dumbass idea and he'll probably get killed for it.

    I voted for change. I got Bush III.
    Even though doing so is and has been illegal?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I agree that we shouldn't de-citizen people under any circumstances. That would be completely unprecedented in the United States, and I *really* don't think we should go down that path. I could easily see this being abused.

    And it would violate Article 15 of the UN Declaration of Human Rights, to which the United States is a signatory.
    This isn't something that someone just dreamed up in the past few years. It's the law.

    § 1481. Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions
    How Current is This? (a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality—

    (1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or

    (2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or

    (3) entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state if

    (A) such armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the United States
    , or

    (B) such persons serve as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer; or

    (4)(A) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years if he has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state; or

    (B) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years for which office, post, or employment an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance is required; or

    (5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state, in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State; or

    (6) making in the United States a formal written renunciation of nationality in such form as may be prescribed by, and before such officer as may be designated by, the Attorney General, whenever the United States shall be in a state of war and the Attorney General shall approve such renunciation as not contrary to the interests of national defense; or

    (7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384 of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction.

    (b) Whenever the loss of United States nationality is put in issue in any action or proceeding commenced on or after September 26, 1961 under, or by virtue of, the provisions of this chapter or any other Act, the burden shall be upon the person or party claiming that such loss occurred, to establish such claim by a preponderance of the evidence. Any person who commits or performs, or who has committed or performed, any act of expatriation under the provisions of this chapter or any other Act shall be presumed to have done so voluntarily, but such presumption may be rebutted upon a showing, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the act or acts committed or performed were not done voluntarily.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Partisan, I officially am accusing you of Treason. I saw you with schematics to the city hall of Gary, Indiana with red X's written in crayon that says "PUT BOMBS HERE."

    Let's say an intelligence officer gets that little bit off one of their data mining computers. Being near the end of his shift, he just tosses you into the "kill this dude" pile.

    Forwarded to SOCOM and before you know it, a predator missile comes through your door.

    Obviously my scenario is rather exaggerated, but the point is that who do we allow to decide what is or is not treason? Many of you right-winged crackpots are probably pretty concerned about the idea that President Obama could personally apply this label to you! Maybe he's gotten the impression that people opposing healthcare reform are in favor of policies that CAUSE THE DEATH OF AMERICANS. If you're causing the death of Americans, surely you're a traitor!

    We don't let the military decide these things for a very good reason.
    Ever been to Gary?
    If you sell military or state secrets to a foreign nation, you are a traitor....
    If you serve in a foreign military while we are at war with that country, you are a traitor....

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    Re: Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists | TPMCafe




    I am really, really not comfortable with revoking citizenship under any circumstances. Even if they are standing in the middle of a terrorist training camp teaching people how to shoot a rifle. Nor am I comfortable with "kill orders" being issued for any Americans.

    I mean, if an airstrike hits the camp and an American happens to be there, well, it's their own damn fault for being there. But deliberately targeting Americans for assassination? Argh.

    "Capture if able" orders are fine. Bag em and tag em, stick them on a plane and send them home to answer for their crimes to a jury of their peers. If a guy shoots at the soldiers trying to apprehend him, well, that's a dumbass idea and he'll probably get killed for it.

    I voted for change. I got Bush III.
    i don't like this one bit. a slippery slpoe, to say the least.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    i don't like this one bit. a slippery slpoe, to say the least.
    I thought you were a law and order Liberal. Or, is that only when the law works in your favor?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    This isn't something that someone just dreamed up in the past few years. It's the law.
    Tell me, just which armed forces of which foreign state are these guys serving in?

    Remember that little technicality that these guys are not members of the armed forces of a foreign state and why we aren't treating them as POW's when captured?

    Looks like we have to find a different law in order to strip them of their citizenship, right???

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    Re: Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    Tell me, just which armed forces of which foreign state are these guys serving in?

    Remember that little technicality that these guys are not members of the armed forces of a foreign state and why we aren't treating them as POW's when captured?

    Looks like we have to find a different law in order to strip them of their citizenship, right???
    Any American citizen whom engages in armed conflict against the United States is guilty of treason. There's no technicality, according to the law.

    No need for a new law. The ones in place are just fine. Not to mention we can use the Reconstruction Act of 1867 to take away their rights for the rest of their lives, even if they aren't jailed and/or executed.

    (7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384 of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction.
    Last edited by apdst; 02-15-10 at 06:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Any American citizen whom engages in armed conflict against the United States is guilty of treason. There's no technicality, according to the law.

    No need for a new law. The ones in place are just fine. Not to mention we can use the Reconstruction Act of 1867 to take away their rights for the rest of their lives, even if they aren't jailed and/or executed.
    Then why did you highlight a section that does NOT apply to these guys? What's that all about?

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