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Thread: Joe Biden update: Iraq one of Obama's 'great achievements'

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    Re: Joe Biden update: Iraq one of Obama's 'great achievements'

    Quote Originally Posted by gopman View Post
    History is not as dumb as your average Democrat. Bush will be recognized, as he should be, for revolutionizing the Middle East for the better.
    couldn't make your point without a little trolling?

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    Re: Joe Biden update: Iraq one of Obama's 'great achievements'

    That wouldn't be very fun.
    If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand.
    - Milton Friedman

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    Re: Joe Biden update: Iraq one of Obama's 'great achievements'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    No soldier dies in vain.
    There are some families that would disagree with you.

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    Re: Joe Biden update: Iraq one of Obama's 'great achievements'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    No soldier dies in vain.
    Every Soldier that died for Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield's lies died in vain.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Joe Biden update: Iraq one of Obama's 'great achievements'

    Quote Originally Posted by gopman View Post
    History is not as dumb as your average Democrat. Bush will be recognized, as he should be, for revolutionizing the Middle East for the better.
    I don't think so - I think the good he's done will be overshadowed by the problems that came from the effort (the recession, etc).

    In part because history has a horrible knack for going back ONLY "so far" when it comes to assessing the problems in a situation for the sake of simply summarizing "what happened"

    As is evident when some of us were discussing out Lassez-Faire economics led to the Great Depression 40 years later - there's only so far back that people are willing to go to truly understand how things happened in order to see how ot avoid them in the future.
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    Re: Joe Biden update: Iraq one of Obama's 'great achievements'

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I don't think so - I think the good he's done will be overshadowed by the problems that came from the effort (the recession, etc).

    In part because history has a horrible knack for going back ONLY "so far" when it comes to assessing the problems in a situation for the sake of simply summarizing "what happened"

    As is evident when some of us were discussing out Lassez-Faire economics led to the Great Depression 40 years later - there's only so far back that people are willing to go to truly understand how things happened in order to see how ot avoid them in the future.
    The common knowledge is embarrassingly weak, but the depression has actually been extremely well studied by economists, notably including Ben Bernanke.

    That may be true of the recession, even though it should be obvious that it wasn't Bush's fault any more than the bull market of the 90's was. But I don't think it will be true of Iraq. It is more common sense than the nuances of the business cycle and the financial system. When people see Iraq (and for that matter Afghanistan) established as a free, modern democracy, and a corresponding decline in terrorism, they will associate it with George Bush.
    If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand.
    - Milton Friedman

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    Re: Joe Biden update: Iraq one of Obama's 'great achievements'

    Quote Originally Posted by gopman View Post
    The common knowledge is embarrassingly weak, but the depression has actually been extremely well studied by economists, notably including Ben Bernanke.

    That may be true of the recession, even though it should be obvious that it wasn't Bush's fault any more than the bull market of the 90's was. But I don't think it will be true of Iraq. It is more common sense than the nuances of the business cycle and the financial system. When people see Iraq (and for that matter Afghanistan) established as a free, modern democracy, and a corresponding decline in terrorism, they will associate it with George Bush.
    Yes - good point.
    We're discussing an issue of "common knowledge" VS "historians"
    Historians fully know how things happen - it's their interest (I think a lot of us, here, are interested into the deeper details of why things happen the way they do)
    But common knowledge aside from specialized interest comes to many purely in the form of textbooks and the occasional show on the history channel - which may or may not be in depth or accurate.

    I have a feeling that the 'common knowledge' will always be sided with Bush's efforts - until we get WAY into the future when personal views are no longer a concern.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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    Re: Joe Biden update: Iraq one of Obama's 'great achievements'

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Every Soldier that died for Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield's lies died in vain.
    Perhaps when you pontificate from a more foward operating position than your couch with a box of ring dings someone wi take you smearing sdiers more seriously.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Joe Biden update: Iraq one of Obama's 'great achievements'

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Perhaps when you pontificate from a more foward operating position than your couch with a box of ring dings someone wi take you smearing sdiers more seriously.
    Its not a smear to our soldiers at all. In fact, I honor and sympathize with every soldier that was placed in harms way to fight a neo-con war based on lies, manipulation and deceit.

    It is a dishonor to EVER ask an American soldier to put their lives/limbs on the line for one man's arrogance.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Joe Biden update: Iraq one of Obama's 'great achievements'

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Its not a smear to our soldiers at all. In fact, I honor and sympathize with every soldier that was placed in harms way to fight a neo-con war based on lies, manipulation and deceit.

    It is a dishonor to EVER ask an American soldier to put their lives/limbs on the line for one man's arrogance.




    So is it only bush's lies? or was there a patern of information that led to this war?


    Was there a cease fire sculped by the UN that allowed for the largest embezzelment scheme in world history?


    or are you looking at calling troops dying in vain as a political tool like suggesting palin writes 4 words on her hand.


    This is low, even for you.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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