Ron Paul: ‘Neocon influence’ is infiltrating tea parties

In the face of several electoral challenges from tea party-connected candidates, Texas Republican Congressman Ron Paul cautioned in a recent interview that "neocon influence" is "infiltrating" the movement he is often credited for creating.

Speaking to MSNBC host Rachel Maddow on Tuesday night, Paul first took up for the tea parties as a natural reaction of the people when they are unhappy with government. What they are not, he explained, are entirely adherent to his ideas. Paul suggested that the group only "sometimes" represents his views.

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Here is my take on this: Today's tea partiers rant about the elitists in Washington, but these statements come not without a certain irony. Those who are leading the tea party movement, at this time, are themselves elitist. Ron Paul, like him or not, invented the tea parties, as they are known in modern times, and they consisted of everyday people - Not Joe the plumber, but real plumbers. Not Sarah Palin, but Joe Sixpack. Not Tom Tancredo, but Joe Average. And there is the difference.

You can disagree with many of Paul's stances, and that is OK, but Ron Paul's tea party movement represented American citizens, not corporations, extremist religious organizations, PAC's, or other interest groups, but the people themselves. And that is the difference between the original tea parties and the perversions that pass themselves off now as the same thing. They are not. They are quite different, and yes, they DO have an agenda that is not Conservative, but attempts instead to fill the void left by Neocons of the past with Neocons of the present. They are not Conservative, and they are not American in spirit either.

Today's tea partiers are the last gasp of a radical faction of a bastardized version of Liberalism on steroids, attempting to hold on to something they never possessed in the first place, and will never get. The vast majority of Americans are just too intelligent to buy what they are shoveling.

Article is here.

danarhea said:

They are quite different, and yes, they DO have an agenda that is not Conservative, but attempts instead to fill the void left by Neocons of the past with Neocons of the present. They are not Conservative, and they are not American in spirit either.

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Could you point out what specific agenda items of the Tea Party movement is "not conservative"?

Zyphlin said:

Could you point out what specific agenda items of the Tea Party movement is "not conservative"?

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Generally, it seems to me that neo-cons are much less concerned with the typical tenants of traditional conservatism and much more concerned with twisting conservative values to meet their own political agendas. Traditional conservatives, like Ron Paul, are against welfare and an expanding central gov't while neo-cons find themselves supporting those causes if it helps them politically.
When neo-cons try to take over theses tea parties just to get their name in the press (see Palin) it bastardizes their original intent and devalues the tea party movement as a whole

That is what happens when your movement is relatively vague and enjoys being seen as Washington Outsiders. Anyone who claims at least some of the virtues can start to talk up the movement, or at least try to. There never was much direction in the Tea Party movement, so I am not seeing the sense of urgency he is. But Ron Paul and many others enjoy using the neocon label to distract from more complicated answers. It is not necessarily neoconservative so much as new populist, which some neoconservatives felt relatively comfortable with. These things are hard to identify at times.

"while neo-cons find themselves supporting those causes if it helps them politically"

And I thought it was because many neoconservatives just did not understand the hostility towards the basics of the Welfare state. But obviously neocons are the ones who are just politically expedient and have no principles.

cryptogenic said:

Generally, it seems to me that neo-cons are much less concerned with the typical tenants of traditional conservatism and much more concerned with twisting conservative values to meet their own political agendas. Traditional conservatives, like Ron Paul, are against welfare and an expanding central gov't while neo-cons find themselves supporting those causes if it helps them politically.
When neo-cons try to take over theses tea parties just to get their name in the press (see Palin) it bastardizes their original intent and devalues the tea party movement as a whole

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So.....

No specific agenda item of the Tea Parties that is not conservative.

Thanks

cryptogenic said:

Generally, it seems to me that neo-cons are much less concerned with the typical tenants of traditional conservatism and much more concerned with twisting conservative values to meet their own political agendas. Traditional conservatives, like Ron Paul, are against welfare and an expanding central gov't while neo-cons find themselves supporting those causes if it helps them politically.
When neo-cons try to take over theses tea parties just to get their name in the press (see Palin) it bastardizes their original intent and devalues the tea party movement as a whole

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I don't buy this "traditional conservatives" stuff. Ron Paul is a libertarian. A libertarian is not the same thing as a conservative, traditional or otherwise. There are a lot of hard core conservatives that call themselves libertarian because they think it sounds cooler than republican, but that does not mean they are true libertarians. They are really just typical republicans.

The current tea party movement has a lot of people in it they say they want a smaller government that stays out of their lives. Now, there are few caveats to that though.

They want a smaller government in terms of a social safetynet. Well, yeah, but if they are on Medicare they don't want you touching that. Just the same they want a smaller government, well, smaller in terms of the stuff they don't like, in terms of defense spending, they want more of that. War too, they are cool with war.

They don't like bailouts. Ok well, most of them, they are cool with subsidizing oil companies, and coal, but not a car company, and to them thats what counts.

They don't like the government intruding in their private lives. Now, when they say that, they mean "their" private lives. They don't mind the government legislating morality and imposing their religious views on the kinds of people they don't like.

That basically sums up the views of a good percentage of the tea party bunch out there, and as you can see, it doesn't have much in common with libertarianism, and thus they don't care too much for Ron Paul.

SouthernDemocrat said:

I don't buy this "traditional conservatives" stuff. Ron Paul is a libertarian. A libertarian is not the same thing as a conservative, traditional or otherwise. There are a lot of hard core conservatives that call themselves libertarian because they think it sounds cooler than republican, but that does not mean they are true libertarians. They are really just typical republicans.

The current tea party movement has a lot of people in it they say they want a smaller government that stays out of their lives. Now, there are few caveats to that though.

They want a smaller government in terms of a social safetynet. Well, yeah, but if they are on Medicare they don't want you touching that. Just the same they want a smaller government, well, smaller in terms of the stuff they don't like, in terms of defense spending, they want more of that. War too, they are cool with war.

They don't like bailouts. Ok well, most of them, they are cool with subsidizing oil companies, and coal, but not a car company, and to them thats what counts.

They don't like the government intruding in their private lives. Now, when they say that, they mean "their" private lives. They don't mind the government legislating morality and imposing their religious views on the kinds of people they don't like.

That basically sums up the views of a good percentage of the tea party bunch out there, and as you can see, it doesn't have much in common with libertarianism, and thus they don't care too much for Ron Paul.

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So basically you have nothing, AS USUAL. The Tea Party movement is conservative and against the socialist plan of Obama. If you're a not liberal, that should be good enough for you. But you hate conservatives don't you, and why is that?

Zyphlin said:

So.....

No specific agenda item of the Tea Parties that is not conservative.

Thanks

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Way to make a blanket statement. The fact of the matter is it depends on what boils down to true 'conservatism' and which agenda item you are talking about for which tea party. There are more than a few tea parties going on and many of them are run by differing organizations.
Some tea party organizers have different ideas on exactly what they are protesting than what Ron Paul or whoever.
I think the real point is that Ron Paul is often credited with reawakening Libertarianism and constitutionalism during the last election, with that movement leading into these tea parties and the ideals of that movement are being exploited for political gain by people who haven't necessarily conformed to those ideals in the past.
So, if you want one specific thing that is not conservative about the tea parties it would be just that, politicians who don't have a true conservative voting record trying to latch on to this tea party thing for political gain.

Zyphlin said:

Could you point out what specific agenda items of the Tea Party movement is "not conservative"?

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Could you point out any specific agenda items of the Tea Party movement at all?

Thanks in advance.

cryptogenic said:

Way to make a blanket statement.

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Hi, I think you have the wrong person.

I'm not the one that made the blanket statement. Dana was, when he said this:

danarhea said:

They are quite different, and yes, they DO have an agenda that is not Conservative, but attempts instead to fill the void left by Neocons of the past with Neocons of the present. They are not Conservative, and they are not American in spirit either.

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So, SINCE Dana made the blanket statement I asked him to back it up by actually stating what issues on the Tea Parties agenda is not conservative.

You responded to that question giving me a long rambling speech about neo-conservatism and not giving me one single thing from the Tea Parties agenda that is not conservative.

So no, I'm not making blanket statements. Dana is. I'm asking him, or anyone else, to back it up with something substantial and specific.

So, if you want one specific thing that is not conservative about the tea parties it would be just that, politicians who don't have a true conservative voting record trying to latch on to this tea party thing for political gain.

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Who supports Tea Parties does not equal their agenda. There were numerous people that supported Ron Paul, and the original tea parties, that didn't agree with some of Ron Paul's ideas. Did that somehow make those tea parties "not conservative" in their agenda because people participating in it didn't agree 100% with Ron Paul?

Whose latching onto the Tea Parties and the agenda of the Tea Parties are not one in the same.

Chappy said:

Could you point out any specific agenda items of the Tea Party movement at all?

Thanks in advance.

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Why should I? I'm not the one that made the blanket claim, that was Dana when he stated this:

danarhea said:

They are quite different, and yes, they DO have an agenda that is not Conservative, but attempts instead to fill the void left by Neocons of the past with Neocons of the present. They are not Conservative, and they are not American in spirit either.

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Dana apparently seems to know what the Agenda of the Tea Parties is because he's declared it as something that is not conservative and that is unAmerican. So how about asking Dana, since he's the one that made the claim.

Can anyone point out any specific agenda items of the Tea Party movement at all? Conservative, liberal, whatever. Any specific agenda items at all?

Thanks in advance.

Chappy said:

Can anyone point out any specific agenda items of the Tea Party movement at all? Conservative, liberal, whatever. Any specific agenda items at all?

Thanks in advance.

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I asked this a few days ago. I asked for a tea party platform. I was told by Charles Martel that I didn't know history and the Tea Party doesn't need a platform.

So all I'm saying is good luck in your quest Chappy.

The Tea Party movement is an excuse for groups with barely connected ideals to ban together to make themselve's seem more popular. Or at least that is what it has become. The more the Tea Party moves to an actual platform, the less support it will have.

The tea party movement MAY have started out as a response by fiscal conservatives, however, like the REpublican party, it is being overtaken by the radical right-wing wackos. That is why I say there are tea partiers and teabaggers.

This thread is crap.......There are many differences between Paul and the Tea Party movement............Especially social ones.......A good Tea Party member would never appear on a fruit cakes program like Rachel Maddow like Paul did.....Paul is desperate for publicity.......

Navy Pride said:

This thread is crap.......There are many differences between Paul and thr Tea Party movement.Especially social ones.......A good Tea Party member would never appear on a fruit cakes program like Rachael Madow like Paul did.....Paul is desperate for publicity.......

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I Rest my Case!

The Tea Party movement wasn't about social conservatism....but the right-wing wackos have come out in force and are hijacking the movement in the same way they overtook the GOP.

disneydude said:

I Rest my Case!

The Tea Party movement wasn't about social conservatism....but the right-wing wackos have come out in force and are hijacking the movement in the same way they overtook the GOP.

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ROTFLMAO are you a closet member my left wing friend?:rofl

Navy Pride said:

ROTFLMAO are you a closet member my left wing friend?:rofl

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Not at all. But I can respect fiscal conservatives. I would actually vote for many fiscal conservatives, as long as they don't adopt the radical right-wing social agenda. That's why I actually like the old version of Mitt Romney. I'm waiting to see if he cowtows to the right-wing during the next election cycle.

Navy Pride said:

This thread is crap.......There are many differences between Paul and the Tea Party movement............Especially social ones.......A good Tea Party member would never appear on a fruit cakes program like Rachel Maddow like Paul did.....Paul is desperate for publicity.......

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Actually, Ron Paul's message is getting through. His son, Rand Paul, is running for Senator on pretty much the same platform as his father did for president. Guess who is supporting him? Sarah Palin. LOL. I guess you are going to call Palin your left wing friend too, right? :mrgreen:

Final note: The term "Social Conservative" is an oxymoron.

danarhea said:

Final note: The term "Social Conservative" is an oxymoron.

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What's a better term then? Because the GOP definitely has different kinds of conservatives under their tent.

Religious conservative? Christian conservative maybe? I dunno.

Winnb said:

What's a better term then? Because the GOP definitely has different kinds of conservatives under their tent.

Religious conservative? Christian conservative maybe? I dunno.

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I think what Dana was saying is that there is nothing "conservative" about the right-wings social agenda.
Conservatives belive in smaller government. The entire premise of the right-wing social agenda is big brother/big government, lots of regulation which true conservatives would oppose.

That is why Barry Goldwater said that the government should not be involved in trying to legislate a social agenda and focused on fiscal conservatism.

disneydude said:

Not at all. But I can respect fiscal conservatives. I would actually vote for many fiscal conservatives, as long as they don't adopt the radical right-wing social agenda. That's why I actually like the old version of Mitt Romney. I'm waiting to see if he cowtows to the right-wing during the next election cycle.

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You should join the Whigs!

disneydude said:

I think what Dana was saying is that there is nothing "conservative" about the right-wings social agenda.
Conservatives belive in smaller government. The entire premise of the right-wing social agenda is big brother/big government, lots of regulation which true conservatives would oppose.

That is why Barry Goldwater said that the government should be involved in trying to legislate a social agenda and focused on fiscal conservatism.

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Ah got it. Thank you.

danarhea said:

Actually, Ron Paul's message is getting through. His son, Rand Paul, is running for Senator on pretty much the same platform as his father did for president. Guess who is supporting him? Sarah Palin. LOL. I guess you are going to call Palin your left wing friend too, right? :mrgreen:

Final note: The term "Social Conservative" is an oxymoron.

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You got and atta by from DD dan.........running for the senate is one thing..there are a lot of kooks there.........Boxer and Durbin come to mind......Running for the presidency is a whole new ball game my friend......



Sorry Palin is strong on defense Paul is not in fact he wants to cut the military to the bare bone.

Paul is for gay marriage Palin is not...........

I coculd go on and on, the only thing the agree on is abortion..............

Winnb said:

Ah got it. Thank you.

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get a room.............:rofl