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Thread: A 16-year old girl buried alive in Turkey

  1. #21
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    Re: A 16-year old girl buried alive in Turkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Some parts of the country certainly but not all of it. There are plenty of gay bars in many parts of Turkey. Its really strange reading about this sort of thing in Ankara as it feels like reading about a different country.
    "Honor killing" of gay activist in Istanbul puts spotlight on Turkey's attitudes toward homosexuality.

    "Honor killing" of gay activist in Istanbul puts spotlight on Turkey's attitudes toward homosexuality - Last Word
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    Re: A 16-year old girl buried alive in Turkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    Many people tend to look at other people by using themselves as a standard.

    They automatically think that their values or attitudes are the norm everywhere and when things happen that go against their thoughts or beliefs they are shocked.

    Know this, your thoughts are your own and Cults like Islam around the world have a value system that go against the values on life that you my have.

    Turkey is in many ways still a 3rd world country, as are China and India in spite of their technological appearances to the outside world.

    In the western world we would council a child who we suspected was going down the wrong path, but in the mind set of a 3rd world country that allows Cults the same status as any other religion people feel it is okay to kill people because they dishonor the family name.

    I am sorry to report that tha attitude is rampant in the cult of Islam in this country as is shown in the actions of Muslims on a regular basis.

    The point here is that we tend to accept too many Cults as religions, and while this may seem to be an open minded tolerant way to be it extremely crazy to allow them to continue with the same status of a religion that teaches peace and love and "Do unto others."

    Tolerance is has gone too far and this action by the family is a perfect example.

    The father & mother in this case should be put to death andthe world should be told that the Cult of Islam is not a religion and needs to be band world wide before it creates problems that can't be dealt with without a Revolution that requires drastic action not unlike the failed crusades that started in 1095 and ended in 1271. Today we face a threat from this Cult that is real and threatens everything we believe and women should be more concerned that anyone else because they are on the front line to be subjugated by the cult of Islam.

    I used to think that Mormonism was just a another Christian religion until one of my daughters took back a cheating husband because the Mormon church told her she was meant to be with him because they were married in a Temple and they were meant to be together from birth and she should forgive his multiple cheatings and tke him back no matter what he did.

    Sorry but that is crazy and makes women less than the than men equal, and isn't it a tenant of the Liberals that woman and all people are equals and should be treated with respect etc.
    Was that your evidence to the contrary or just an general commentary on the subject?

  3. #23
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    Re: A 16-year old girl buried alive in Turkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It would nice to have a story in English.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Partisan
    Yet another reason Turkey is not ready for the EU.......

    Right, because it makes sense to bar their entry based on the actions of one family?
    __________________
    "Muslims are OBLIGATED to raid the lands of the infidels, occupy them, and exchange their systems of governance for an Islamic system. . .They say that our sharia does not impose our particular beliefs upon others; this is a false assertion. For it is, in fact, part of our religion to IMPOSE our particular beliefs upon others." -bin Laden

    .........
    Is that supposed to be an argument for barring Turkey from the brotherhood of nations based on the actions of one family, as you said?

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    Its not just one family. Its a pervasive attitude amongst the Turkish people. Homophobia, the treatment of women, anti christain sentiment, and a general backwards way of thinking.
    There exists anti-homosexual elements and anti-Christian elements in those nations existing in the EU already. Yet we don't see you calling for these states to be thrown out of the EU. Why is that?

    So "backward" that Turkey stood with the United States through a half century of the Cold War and is a secular democratic member of NATO. So backward, that Turkey stands as a strict opposite to most of the rest of the Muslim world whether the measure is political stability, economic growth or cultural achievement. Individual liberty and human rights are greater than in any other Muslim nation.

    Setting aside the silly idea that the actions of a few should disqualify the potential of the many, there are greater issues at stake here which should be considered.

    There is no doubt that radical elements exist within Turkey, but there also exists a significant number of people opposed to the radicals. And we need to ally with them and encourage their ascension.

    As Turkey's former prime minister, Tansu Ciller, notes: "The West needs to make a preference which line it wants to see. The Turkish model or the Iranian one." Allying with the moderates in Turkey and encouraging them and the transformation of Turkey through its admission into such bodies as the EU would be a positive step in that direction.

    As Daniel Pipes writes in Militant Islam Reaches America:
    "Even the most Western-oriented Turks despair at being shunned by the EU, seeing this as confirmation of their second-class status. As one Turkish commentator bitterly noted in 1995: 'When communism ceased to be a threat, the changing balances in the [Atlantic] alliance brought about a return to the system that existed prior to communism. Christain enemies made brotherly peace; they forgave each other and again recalled their common enemy, Islam. Actually, this memory had never been forgotten; it had merely been shelved for a while.' Letting Turkey into the EU will cut down on these unpleasant suspicions." p.36

    We need to think strategically. Holding up a supposed "pervasive attitude amongst the Turkish people [regarding] Homophobia, the treatment of women, anti christain sentiment, and a general backwards way of thinking," while neglecting the larger picture is not a wise course of action. (On a side note, I believe you just made this claim of a "pervasive attitude up;" I don't believe this is a conclusion based on solid evidence, but a product of your own prejudice.) There are far more important issues at stake. One may always find fault with any society. Turning a cold shoulder to the Turks based on such minor, petty matters is not a course of action that will in anyway strengthen our position in the region.
    Last edited by ScummyD; 02-06-10 at 04:29 AM.
    "Muslims are OBLIGATED to raid the lands of the infidels, occupy them, and exchange their systems of governance for an Islamic system. . .They say that our sharia does not impose our particular beliefs upon others; this is a false assertion. For it is, in fact, part of our religion to IMPOSE our particular beliefs upon others." -bin Laden

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    Re: A 16-year old girl buried alive in Turkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post

    Not exactly mainstream though, unless you have evidence to the contrary?
    "Most Muslims--and bin Laden is in the Islamic mainstream--believe separating church and states is apostasy." p. 2


    "That threat is sharpened by the fact that bin Laden's ideas are grounded in and powered by the tenets of Islam, divine guidelines that are completely familiar to most of the world's billion plus Muslims and lived by them on a daily basis." -Imperial Hubris, p.xviii

    "To start, I want for now to avoid debate over whether bin Laden preaches and practices an aberrant form of Islam, as well as charges--almost always by non-Muslims--that he is merely a deranged killer using religious rhetoric to justify his attacks. And though I think both accusations wrong, I will not argue against them here."

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post

    He may not be but he is a product of it.
    Indeed. But not just any 'ol product.

    "Osama bin Laden, after all, is not an aberrant product of Saudi society--he is the poster boy." p.73

    Michael Scheuer Imperial Hubris
    Last edited by ScummyD; 02-06-10 at 04:47 AM.
    "Muslims are OBLIGATED to raid the lands of the infidels, occupy them, and exchange their systems of governance for an Islamic system. . .They say that our sharia does not impose our particular beliefs upon others; this is a false assertion. For it is, in fact, part of our religion to IMPOSE our particular beliefs upon others." -bin Laden

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    Re: A 16-year old girl buried alive in Turkey

    Quote Originally Posted by ScummyD View Post
    Turning a cold shoulder to the Turks based on such minor, petty matters is not a course of action that will in anyway strengthen our position in the region.
    To be clear, by "minor, petty matters" I mean within the larger context of our strategic interests. Obviously the crimes noted themselves are serious. But they should not preclude our alliance with the state of Turkey.
    "Muslims are OBLIGATED to raid the lands of the infidels, occupy them, and exchange their systems of governance for an Islamic system. . .They say that our sharia does not impose our particular beliefs upon others; this is a false assertion. For it is, in fact, part of our religion to IMPOSE our particular beliefs upon others." -bin Laden

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    Re: A 16-year old girl buried alive in Turkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    Yet another reason Turkey is not ready for the EU.......
    Turkey has arrested the parents, and is prosecuting them. Why say that this act represents the nation of Turkey? If that is so, then I guess, by your own logic, that Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer represent America, right.
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    Re: A 16-year old girl buried alive in Turkey

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Turkey has arrested the parents, and is prosecuting them. Why say that this act represents the nation of Turkey? If that is so, then I guess, by your own logic, that Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer represent America, right.

    The Turkish government may be secular to a point. I say to a point because they are not doing a very good job of protecting the christain minority from oppression and persecution by the religion of peace (HA!) majority. I say its time for the world to reject Islam and muslims until they reform their religion.(ain't gonna happen).

    You will say thet America was founded on a priciple of freedom of religion. I agree, however Islam IMO is not a religion, it is an evil cult.

    .
    When America is strong the world is calm, When America is weak tyrants and terrorist slaughter the meek. ~ SgtRock

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    Re: A 16-year old girl buried alive in Turkey

    Quote Originally Posted by ScummyD View Post
    "Most Muslims--and bin Laden is in the Islamic mainstream--believe separating church and states is apostasy." p. 2


    "That threat is sharpened by the fact that bin Laden's ideas are grounded in and powered by the tenets of Islam, divine guidelines that are completely familiar to most of the world's billion plus Muslims and lived by them on a daily basis." -Imperial Hubris, p.xviii

    "To start, I want for now to avoid debate over whether bin Laden preaches and practices an aberrant form of Islam, as well as charges--almost always by non-Muslims--that he is merely a deranged killer using religious rhetoric to justify his attacks. And though I think both accusations wrong, I will not argue against them here."


    Indeed. But not just any 'ol product.

    "Osama bin Laden, after all, is not an aberrant product of Saudi society--he is the poster boy." p.73

    Michael Scheuer Imperial Hubris
    Well i would like to know where Scheuer is getting his information from here, you would think that if Bin Laden was that mainstream then parties sympathetic to his values would have been elected in Pakistan Bangladesh
    and Kosovo.

  9. #29
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    Re: A 16-year old girl buried alive in Turkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Well i would like to know where Scheuer is getting his information from here,
    Considering he was the head of the CIAs bin Laden unit, he is privy to sources well outside our ability to reach or have access to and he knows a lot about OBL.

    you would think that if Bin Laden was that mainstream then parties sympathetic to his values would have been elected in Pakistan Bangladesh
    and Kosovo.
    The Libertarians have never had much if any electoral success in the US. That doesn't mean they aren't within the mainstream.
    "Muslims are OBLIGATED to raid the lands of the infidels, occupy them, and exchange their systems of governance for an Islamic system. . .They say that our sharia does not impose our particular beliefs upon others; this is a false assertion. For it is, in fact, part of our religion to IMPOSE our particular beliefs upon others." -bin Laden

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    Re: A 16-year old girl buried alive in Turkey

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    I say its time for the world to reject Islam and muslims until they reform their religion.(ain't gonna happen).
    That would only serve to inflame the situation even further and therefore hinder our efforts and undermine our interests.

    And it would provide further fodder for the radicals to say we are waging a war against the religion of Islam, while not providing any substantive value or return on our efforts. It would do nothing to help so-called moderate Muslims gain or solidify their power, but only serve to hamper their efforts.

    We need to think strategically. And ally with the moderate forces in Islamic societies to undermine the radicals. You're position seems to be emotively derived with no concern for the overall larger picture or our national interests in the region.

    And, one last point, what would you propose the US do about Muslims living peacefully and productively within it's own communities???
    Last edited by ScummyD; 02-06-10 at 02:44 PM.
    "Muslims are OBLIGATED to raid the lands of the infidels, occupy them, and exchange their systems of governance for an Islamic system. . .They say that our sharia does not impose our particular beliefs upon others; this is a false assertion. For it is, in fact, part of our religion to IMPOSE our particular beliefs upon others." -bin Laden

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