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Thread: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Bigotry and hypocrisy are rife on this topic. Gay people of both genders are already serving, and have done since time immemorial. Their comrades in arms either know of their presence and are unfazed by it, or are too dull to notice, but they are and always have been there.
    As for walking a mile in a man's shoes, so what if he is upset? You have his shoes and a mile head start!
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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    As for walking a mile in a man's shoes, so what if he is upset? You have his shoes and a mile head start!
    I think I just wet myself.

    "That wuz funny, right there."


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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    There have always been and always will be bigots that fight against anyone different then them.

    THAT is the history of this Country.

    There were bigots that fought against inter-racial marriage and integration in the schools and the military.

    Just as there are bigots who will fight against women having equal rights to men and gays having equal rights to straights.

    We as a country must never allow them to hold out country back from achieving its full potential and finally achieving "liberty and justice for ALL".
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    It is if its a lie and I am a lot of thngs but I am not bigoted and I don't have to prove that to you....On this issue I love the Navy and worked for it for 42 years......There are a lot of problems in the Navy and I don't want to see one like gays serving openly in the military for the reasons I have said.....

    Every time you lefties run out of things to say you ressort to the name calling like Bigots and Homophobe......You may not believe this and I don't think you do but a person can have a difference of opinion without being a bigot..........I hear so many liberals like you resorting to that and it gets old..
    I don't think you're a bigot because you don't want DADT repealed (at least not solely because of that). It's your general attitude about gays that gives me that impression.

    I'm not saying it because I ran out of other things to say either. I'm saying it because I believe it to be true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I get a real kick out of people like you and your attitude.........you can be the big hearted liberal that say let them serve openly, hell it does not affect you and probably never will.......No skin off your ass........It does affect shipmates of mine and the Navy that I love.....
    You're right, it doesn't affect me personally. However, I don't think it'll affect the Navy the way you think it will either. Other countries have allowed gays to serve openly in the military and it hasn't caused the kinds of problems that you think it'll cause. Do you think so little of the US military that you think they couldn't get past it when lots of other countries could?
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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    Have you considered that Navy might be from a different place and time? Ideals you might consider to be bigoted might not be considered bigoted at all in his upbringing.

    Because I can assure this, as bigoted as it appears, the generation preceeding his was 10 times worse. It's all relative. Consider this. In 40-45 years, the people of the day very well might consider your views to be somewhat archaic as well. And the beat goes on.

    I try to walk a mile in a man's shoes before I go trying to make an enemy of him.

    Just sayin'.
    You make a good point here I suppose.
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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    For all this discrediting the source, its much easier (and more substantial) to actually interrogate the source and its "information." So let's to NP the service of taking his source seriously.
    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Did you even listen to the audio link in the first post?????
    Yes. It's annoying, really to have to listen to something and then write about it in print, but....

    This was an interview with Robert McGinnis, and the host says he'd recently written something for the New York Times (I guess that's a source we can all trust, right?) so here's a link to the "debate" blog-type page he's on: Opening the Door to Gays in the Military - Room for Debate Blog - NYTimes.com

    He makes the same argument both places. But it's a bad agument, for several reasons.

    1) Lt. Col. McGinnis doesn't actually bring to bear any facts. He argues that although Canada and the UK have allowed gays to serve openly, their cultures are so different from that of the US, they shouldn't count. Instead, he says we should compare ourselves to Russia, China, and India (??). He says in the interview that instead of the "anecdotes" of success that proponents bring to bear, we should look at objective facts--and then he doesn't provide any.

    2) McGinnis has several problems as a source. First, he was on the panel that created DADT back in 1993 (so he has an interest in continuing the same policy he instituted), and he then promptly retired from the army. He argues in the interview that "I can't imagine" that things have changed since he was active duty. Right.

    3) Since retiring, McGinnis has made his living as a speaker and analyst. Here's a webpage advertising his services: AmbassadorSpeakers.com - LT. COL. ROBERT MAGINNIS

    Note that his major employers include The Family Research Council and the Moody Radio Broadcasting Network. It's clear that Lt. Col. McGinnis is a conservative Christian who gets paid to say things conservative Christians like to hear.

    4) Finally, note his argument in the Times piece, where he says that any policy "must also take into account that our volunteer force is staffed by traditional American youth..." That sounds like code for "people with values so narrow they can't possibly be expected to adapt." Language like this invites comparisons to those who didn't want to serve with blacks--they were "traditional Americans" too.

    So what we have here is one guy's opinion, the same opinion he held 17 years ago when he stopped actually being an informed source. And his actual argument isn't that we shouldn't change the policy, only that we should poll the troops first.
    Last edited by Rassales; 02-04-10 at 10:17 PM.

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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Like I said Senior Officer and enlisted will leave the service in droves........

    No one will want to enlist...............
    Like they're going to find jobs.
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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    Like they're going to find jobs.
    Some people have morals and integrity..........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Some people have morals and integrity..........
    Why would serving in a military where gay people EXIST violate anyone's morals and integrity? It's not like they have to BE gay in order to serve or act in any way that is either immoral or lacking in integrity in any way. In fact, we know there are gay people in the military and always have been.

    The whole point of the new policy, as its being developed, is to concentrate on behavior rather than identity. Sexual behavior between same-sex partners will be just as against regulations as is heterosexual conduct.

    This talk of morals and integrity is BOGUS. It smacks of the Westboro Baptists, who condemn military people for even serving a country that condones homosexuality.
    Last edited by Rassales; 02-09-10 at 04:25 PM.

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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Some people have morals and integrity..........
    Apparently the military doesn't. It wants people to lie about who they are so that they can serve to protect their country.

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