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Thread: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

  1. #211
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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    if you'll read the article; they break respondents down by retired and active duty

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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    if you'll read the article; they break respondents down by retired and active duty
    Still doesn't make it the least bit scientific, meaning it can't claim to resemble the views of all military personnel.

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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I'll remind you - my husband's an SFC, in for close to 20 years and he's pro-life, mirrors your views, really.

    Yet I will never be able to understand how military members can remotely be anti-abortion (from the 'killing the innocence' stance that's often presented).

    Innocent children and youths are killed amid almost every single military engagement. . . yet the anti-innocent-deaths passion only extend their passionate views in this ONE direction.

    Thus - I consider it BS.

    If someone truely, deeply and genuinely 100% hardcore felt this 'anti-abortion' 'save the innocent' passion then the Military (Army, Navy, etc) wouldn't even be IN the compass of 'what direction in life should I take?'

    I guess the "innocents" only REALLY matter when they're fellow countrymen?
    i've dealt with kids getting hurt. it sucks.

    my first team leader in the fleet (who died a couple of days ago; not that I suppose it matters, but i've buried 7 guys now, and i'll admit it's getting tiresome) was a pretty smart and fairly politically interested fellow. I asked him one time what he thought of the decision to invade Iraq; he went quiet for a couple of minutes and told me this story (comments in parenthesis are mine):

    "Yeah for a while, mostly at first. I mean, I didn't know if it was in our interests or whatever, but f--k it, there we were, you know? Anyway, we were in Sac (Sacalaweya, a little northeast of Fallujah) and pushing down towards the city. We were rooting through a former Baath party building, and we came across a couple of boxes of little Saddam statues; kinda like bobble-heads except they didn't bobble. Anyway, we noticed that the locals were really f----g weird when we had these things out, so we asked our terp (interpreter, usually a civilian attached at the platoon level) to see what was up about them. Anywho, they wouldn't f----g tell him and then after a while one of them told him and he wouldn't f-----g tell us. So after a while when we had moved out of the immediate area we kept asking him and he told us. Turned out that f-----g Uday had a palace nearby, down at Baharia. Turns out he had a deal with all the local schools; that they would send him their, you know, their promising young girls. 10,11,12 years old and s--t. Anyway, turns out this b-----d would f-----g, you know, f-----g just rape them for days and s--t. Then he'd give them one of these little f-----g dolls, tell them it'd been an honor for them; and throw them out the front door. Apparently most of them were so f-----g brutalized they just laid down and died, right there outside of Baha. Anyway, so no, after I heard that s--t I never questioned whether we should be in Iraq. And after you see s--t like that, boot (usually slightly derogatory term for junior Marine), you won't either."

    and you know what? when I was there, we tracked and fought people who kidnapped and tortured children to make a political point; to terrorize entire tribes and families that if they stood against what was going on in their society that would happen to their precious little ones. we fought and killed men who deliberately operated from schools; not caring what risk they were putting the kids in. who blew up convoys bringing in medical supplies for sick kids. I've seen Marines and Navy Corpsmen put everything on the line to protect Iraqi kids from monsters like these.

    does s--t happen in combat? yeah, i won't pretend that nobody who was innocent didn't die from our fire. but ultimately i'm proud to be in the military and I'm willing to live a life where occasionally you bury your own for the SAME reason that i'm anti-abortion. because that's how i protect innocents, including children.
    Last edited by cpwill; 02-17-10 at 09:11 PM.

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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Still doesn't make it the least bit scientific, meaning it can't claim to resemble the views of all military personnel.
    it can and it does. you get a slightly larger margin for error the Military Times (that ran the poll) isn't for retired personnel; it has subsidiary magazines (Navy Times, Marine Corps Times, Army Time, Air Force Times, etc). they're sold at every PX, NEX, MCX that I've seen thus far, and as far as the Marine Corps Times is concerned, I would say that probably a wide majority of Marines are readers; if they don't necessarily all buy

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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    it can and it does. you get a slightly larger margin for error
    I didn't know that this magazine is sold at the PX, etc., and that certainly changes things, but it doesn't make the poll valid.

    For a poll to be valid, it must be a random selection of members in the population being sampled. In this poll the members of the survey group were entirely those who felt strongly enough about the issue to take the time to go to the internet and answer the poll. That's a huge factor and undoubtedly skews the results. It's not even possible to predict HOW it skewed the results. For example, if Marines are more likely to read the magazine, does that make them more represented in the poll group? Those who feel strongly one way or another about this issue more likely to participate, so are those one one side or the other of this issue more adamant?

    I might make the suggestion that many of those those who favor repealing DADT might not care that much one way or the other, while those against its repeal may be much more moved to action. If that's so, a poll like this would make the more adamant side appear larger and decrease the proportion of those who would simply shrug at the change.

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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    it can and it does. you get a slightly larger margin for error
    Nope - because it wasn't a random sample.

  7. #217
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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Any poll that disagrees with you then you won't believe it well I talked to the men on active duty and I know the truth.........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Any poll that disagrees with you then you won't believe it
    Wrong. I'll believe a valid scientific poll with a random sample of sufficient size.

    well I talked to the men on active duty and I know the truth.........
    You're even less of a scientific poll than this magazine's.

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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Wrong. I'll believe a valid scientific poll with a random sample of sufficient size.



    You're even less of a scientific poll than this magazine's.
    I know how the men in the fleet feel and that is all that counts........if the suits ask them you lose.........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    I love non-sequiturs.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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