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Thread: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

  1. #201
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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    I'll remind you - my husband's an SFC, in for close to 20 years and he's pro-life, mirrors your views, really.

    Yet I will never be able to understand how military members can remotely be anti-abortion (from the 'killing the innocence' stance that's often presented).

    Innocent children and youths are killed amid almost every single military engagement. . . yet the anti-innocent-deaths passion only extend their passionate views in this ONE direction.

    Thus - I consider it BS.

    If someone truely, deeply and genuinely 100% hardcore felt this 'anti-abortion' 'save the innocent' passion then the Military (Army, Navy, etc) wouldn't even be IN the compass of 'what direction in life should I take?'

    I guess the "innocents" only REALLY matter when they're fellow countrymen?
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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Can I ask you what ships you served on?
    Hah!
    Don't pretend as if the "been there, done that" is a qualifier to have a developed opinion on something!

    If it matters to *you* then I am compelled to ask you "how many babies have you been pregnant with?"

    How many children have you carried in your womb, given birth too?

    How many epitomizes and sonograms have you had - how many glucose screenings and bed rests have you been put on?

    How many unwanted and abandoned babies have you adopted.

    . . . But, NAY - I know that the "been there, done that" does NOT matter when it comes to certain subjects, now does it? Of course is doesn't - so don't try to pretend it suddenly counts.

    Back on track:

    How many times have YOU been denied affection from your partner? Letters when you're overseas? Phonecalls and webcame sessions with your loved one?

    I have never been denied ANY single one of these. I have never been there and never done that - yet I FEEL DEEPLY for people who HAVE been denied these based on the fact that they fell in love with one of the same gender. . . and I feel that denying these things is wrong.

    I can feel this way - without having to experience it.
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  3. #203
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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Your wrong I am far from a religeous man and I will be the first to admit that...I am just telling you what my church teaches...........

    To me pro choice is a cop out, its a way to let you sleep well at night.......To me pro choice and pro abortion are one and the same.........
    They are not even close to being the same thing. I don't know of many people who are pro-abortion. I think even the staunchest pro-choice person would agree that the decision to have an abortion should only be made after all options have been considered.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  4. #204
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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I'll remind you - my husband's an SFC, in for close to 20 years and he's pro-life, mirrors your views, really.

    Yet I will never be able to understand how military members can remotely be anti-abortion (from the 'killing the innocence' stance that's often presented).

    Innocent children and youths are killed amid almost every single military engagement. . . yet the anti-innocent-deaths passion only extend their passionate views in this ONE direction.

    Thus - I consider it BS.

    If someone truely, deeply and genuinely 100% hardcore felt this 'anti-abortion' 'save the innocent' passion then the Military (Army, Navy, etc) wouldn't even be IN the compass of 'what direction in life should I take?'

    I guess the "innocents" only REALLY matter when they're fellow countrymen?
    I thank you husband for his service.......Seems like the kind of guy that I would love to shoot the bull with.....

    When I was a young man I really did not think much about abortion I then started dating a really religeous girl and when it comes to that subject she converted me...Now no one can explain to me why abortion is a good thing....

    They say its a womans body and it is but who speaks for the innocent defenseless baby in the womb who just wants life.......My wife had 4 kids... I was deployed for three of them but I was home for my youngest sons birth and got to witness it as my wife coach.....If I had any doubt about abortion that took care of it......I believe the greatest gift anyone can receive is a child...Its a miracle.......For the life of me I can't see how anybody could kill one...........

    Sorry to burden you with that and I will probabbly catch hell for going off ropic but it won't be the first time........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    They are not even close to being the same thing. I don't know of many people who are pro-abortion. I think even the staunchest pro-choice person would agree that the decision to have an abortion should only be made after all options have been considered.
    They are the same.....In both cases the baby is killed............
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I thank you husband for his service.......Seems like the kind of guy that I would love to shoot the bull with.....
    Thank you - and I'm sure he'd feel the same.
    Right now he's on a muster tending to the incapable and craving a homecooked steak off my grill. . . and you can surely identify.

    When I was a young man I really did not think much about abortion I then started dating a really religeous girl and when it comes to that subject she converted me...Now no one can explain to me why abortion is a good thing....

    They say its a womans body and it is but who speaks for the innocent defenseless baby in the womb who just wants life.......My wife had 4 kids... I was deployed for three of them but I was home for my youngest sons birth and got to witness it as my wife coach.....If I had any doubt about abortion that took care of it......I believe the greatest gift anyone can receive is a child...Its a miracle.......For the life of me I can't see how anybody could kill one...........

    Sorry to burden you with that and I will probabbly catch hell for going off ropic but it won't be the first time........
    I know the abortion thing is so off subject. . . but the similarities in our mixed views are interesting.

    I think it's just one of those deals - if someone feels strongly about it it's really hard to imagine how on earth someone could feel completely opposite.

    I think the snide part of me scoffs at my husband's anti-abortion views from the standpoint that "of course *he* would feel that way - hell didn't happen to *him* - he just sat around and watched it all"

    Heck - he wasn't around for 3 of the kid's pregnancies, either - but at this point in life I think I finally got over that "boohoo" me - I had my tubes tied and hopefully that's the only measure I need to take.
    However much i speak for my right to choose - if something happens I doubt I'll have the nerve to abort.

    I was certain I was going to abort my beagle's unplanned puppies - but I didn't have the nerve for that, either, and am currently helping her whelp 6.

    All talk - and no jive. LOL
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 02-16-10 at 10:45 PM.
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  7. #207
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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Actually, the worst a commander can get is to commit a kind of extortion.
    not really. every member of the military has the ability to go around their chain of command via the request mast procedure.

    If this were true, the number of persons forcibly put out would have gone down with DADT. The opposite has been true.
    only because you're ignoring the effect of a heightened deployment schedule, two wars, and an increase in social acceptance (even award of a much-sought-after "victim" status) to those separated for that reason. telling your chain that you're gay has become a free ticket out of fulfilling your contractual obligations.

    It is a cause of action.
    HAH. yeah. you'd have to open up investigations of probably 90% of the infantry.

    Again, it has succeeded, the disturbance to military personnel issues would have been reduced by the policy, but the opposite happened.
    really? i have yet to see any major difficulties rising in the ranks from this policy. we suffer far more by allowing mix-gender units than we do from make DADT. what tension it does produce is probably the minimal option, though there might indeed be less if the ban was total and enforced. but that isn't a political possibility.

    Well, that's an old ruse used, usually without success, by an endless line of Maxwell Klingers.
    it happens. and it happens successfully; again, chains of command fighting two wars don't really have the time or resources to devote to proving one way or the other. if you go outside and get (say) division psyche to issue you paper on it, there's not really much they can or are willing to spend the effort to do.

    There have been over 11K forcible removes of people from service since the policy was instituted.
    if you count every administrative separation as a forcible remove.

    which is sort of like counting suicides as murders.

    Any suggestion that someone is gay can be used to trigger an investigation.
    no. it. can't. either de facto or de jure.

    Frankly, I can't imagine how any legal sexual conduct someone engages in before they serve or out uniform and five miles from base has any bearing on their service.
    generally it doesn't. it's the sexual conduct (and tension that derives from its' possibility) on-base and on-deployment that is the issue. which is why generally nobody cares what happens on leave; so long as you break no laws.

    Could someone explain that to me? You can say the policy isn't meant to hurt someone who is quite circumspect about their private lives, but it does.
    generally no, it doesn't. consider, estimates vary, but a pretty conservative figure is that 1-3% of the general populace is homosexual. now, there are about 1,455,000 people in active duty, and another 848,000 in the various reserve components. so out of a total populace of 2,303,000; we're looking at somewhere between 23,000 and 69,000 homosexual members serving right now. the military also has an extremely high turnover; most of its' members are young (average age around 22), and serve one tour. DADT has been in place for what? almost 15 years? during that time period, we can probably assume (wow we're getting rough guesstimate) that close to 100,000 homsexuals have served at one point or another; and you are trumpeting around the 11,000 number, as though a 89% success rate was a failure?

    Usually the person answering the poll is left to define the term for themselves, but to me harrasment means something aimed at a particular individual who is aware that the speech or conduct is going on. That's different from pointing and saying "psst....look at the queer!" from some distance.
    well that's you. without some kind of clarification from the respondents, it's sort of useless.

    And yet there doesn't have to be. People are remarkably good at keeping their sexual appetites in check.
    HAH, yeah, if there is one thing that the 18-26 year old demographic cohort is known for, it's the ability to keep it in their pants and not be effected by sexual tension.

    It's unwarranted fears of people that gay's can't do so (and you've seen that false premise wafted on the internet) that stokes this problem.
    actually it's the existence of the sex drive that stokes this problem

    And here is the crux of the issue. Your judgment falls to protect the person who is limited by their own prejudices. That's what people (like the Col. whom NP quoted in another thread) mean when they warn that the US military is stocked with young "traditional" men. What you are then saying is that protecting the sensibilities of those young men is more important than having a truly meritocratic, volunteer system.
    have you even been paying attention to what i've been arguing? defending anyones' sensibilities isn't up there.

    That's a bad choice for any employer.
    actually it can be a good choice; but that's a matter for a completely different debate.

    This reasoning is circular. It should be against the law because it IS against the law?
    it is against the UCMJ and adherence to that law is not a "bad attitude", as you claimed.

    I thought the policy against pregnancy came from the fact that pregnancy impairs a woman's ability to perform her duties.
    yes. which wouldn't be a problem if women weren't getting pregnant. but women are getting pregnant; given that sexual relationships are banned how is this happening?

    oh, because banning of the basic sexual drive cannot and does not end it's enactment; at best it only lessens it.

  8. #208
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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Thank you - and I'm sure he'd feel the same.
    Right now he's on a muster tending to the incapable and craving a homecooked steak off my grill. . . and you can surely identify.



    I know the abortion thing is so off subject. . . but the similarities in our mixed views are interesting.

    I think it's just one of those deals - if someone feels strongly about it it's really hard to imagine how on earth someone could feel completely opposite.

    I think the snide part of me scoffs at my husband's anti-abortion views from the standpoint that "of course *he* would feel that way - hell didn't happen to *him* - he just sat around and watched it all"

    Heck - he wasn't around for 3 of the kid's pregnancies, either - but at this point in life I think I finally got over that "boohoo" me - I had my tubes tied and hopefully that's the only measure I need to take.
    However much i speak for my right to choose - if something happens I doubt I'll have the nerve to abort.

    I was certain I was going to abort my beagle's unplanned puppies - but I didn't have the nerve for that, either, and am currently helping her whelp 6.

    All talk - and no jive. LOL
    I hear you, I had to put to sleep my sons dog a few years ago.....He was 17 going blind and could hardly walk....I think I took it harder then my son.......

    Thank you.....
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  9. #209
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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I hear you, I had to put to sleep my sons dog a few years ago.....He was 17 going blind and could hardly walk....I think I took it harder then my son.......

    Thank you.....
    Thanks to you, too - for your time and service.

    I think we have more in common with these things than in difference.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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    Re: Repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' to trigger draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Center for Military Readiness | Homosexuals in the Military

    Results of the survey did not make news until July 2009. Washington Times Base News Editor Grace Vuoto reported that the MOAA survey revealed strong support for current policy (16%) or an even stronger law excluding homosexuals from the military (52%). The same combined percentage, 68%, expressed the belief that repeal of the 1993 law would have a very negative effect (48%) or a moderately negative effect (20%) on troop morale and military readiness.

    Contrary to stereotypes about the views of younger men and women, the MOAA survey of 1,664 respondents included a significant number of younger, active-duty or drilling reserve/guard personnel who were largely tolerant of homosexuality in other situations.
    How many? We have only this claim to go on. The survey was conducted among readers of a magazine for retired officers--exactly how many currently-serving "younger men and women" did the survey include? If they included even one hand-selected man and woman, they can make this claim. "Significant" has no operational definition in this case.

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