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Thread: Most Union Members Now Work for Government [edited]

  1. #11
    Educator Winnb's Avatar
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    Re: Great News!

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Because they provide public services.
    So do cops, fireman, and nurses. Many of them are unionized. Why should they not be able to unionize and fight for their benefits and rights? They have families, mortgages, medical expenses, etc... just like everyone else.
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  2. #12
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    Re: Great News!

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Because they provide public services.
    why should that deprive them of a right to collectively bargain?
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Great News!

    On the one hand, unions have had a tradition of improving the living conditions of its workers. Adam Smith maintained that ALL resources are exploitable, and I don't see that any exception can be made for workers who wish to exploit their own ability to do labor, which is also a resource. If corporations can be created to exploit their abilities, then I see nothing wrong with unions being created, which exploit their own abilities.

    However, having said that, I am pretty much torn when it comes to government. Unions do add to the bloat of government spending. Not much, but by Liberals saying that we only spend a little, it is synonymous with Bush supporters who said that we only torture a little. If we are going to commit to reduce government spending, then YES, unions in government must also be looked at. Everything must be evaluated, and unions don't get a free pass here.
    Last edited by danarhea; 01-26-10 at 12:36 PM.
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    Re: Great News!

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    why do you think it should be illegal for federal employees to be unionized?
    Because the whole purpose of government jobs are to provide services for the public, not to provide an artificially high level of compensation to the people holding those jobs. Having people monopolize the labor force at taxpayer expense is a waste of public resources.
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  5. #15
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    Re: Great News!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Because the whole purpose of government jobs are to provide services for the public, not to provide an artificially high level of compensation to the people holding those jobs. Having people monopolize the labor force at taxpayer expense is a waste of public resources.
    i missed it. please point out something which shows us the unions enable artificially high levels of compensation instead of providing public service

    how do public employees monoploize the labor force?

    how are they wasting the public's resources?
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  6. #16
    Educator Winnb's Avatar
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    Re: Great News!

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    On the one hand, unions have had a tradition of improving the living conditions of its workers. Adam Smith maintained that ALL resources are exploitable, and I don't see that any exception can be made for workers who wish to exploit their own ability to do labor, which is also a resource. If corporations can be created to exploit their abilities, then I see nothing wrong with unions being created, which exploit their own abilities.

    However, having said that, I am pretty much torn when it comes to government. Unions do add to the bloat of government spending. Not much, but by Liberals saying that we only spend a little, it is synonymous with Bush supporters who said that we only torture a little. If we are going to commit to reduce government spending, then YES, unions in government must also be looked at. Everything must be evaluated, and unions don't get a free pass here.
    The bass player from Spinal Tap is right. This is a very reasoned post that addresses all of the problems instead of just using the old "blame the unions" rhetoric we seem to always get from the GOP.

    Nice post. Now gimme that bass line from Big Bottom.

    EDIT: Ooops. It could also be Lemmy from Motorhead.
    Last edited by Winnb; 01-26-10 at 01:42 PM.
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    Re: Great News!

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i missed it. please point out something which shows us the unions enable artificially high levels of compensation instead of providing public service

    how do public employees monoploize the labor force?

    how are they wasting the public's resources?
    1. look at the automotive industry
    2. leftists.. look at the growth industry today... .gov is the ONLY growing job market, and .gov is a total parasitic organism void of ANY productivity exists only to expand it's reach, scope and power.
    3. federal government outside that provided by the constitution is not only unconstitutional it is a drain on the GDP...

    Unions long ago gave up the fight for workers and took on the role of institutional rape of various industries, municipalities and the minds of the young and impressionable.

    Union LEADERS and their associations with global elitists and leftists in general are the problem.. NOT the workers!

  8. #18
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    Re: Great News!

    Quote Originally Posted by ConservaBill View Post
    1. look at the automotive industry
    please point out the public employees who work in the auto industry. find some and your comparison would be a legitimate one. until then, it is illegitimate

    2. leftists.. look at the growth industry today... .gov is the ONLY growing job market, and .gov is a total parasitic organism void of ANY productivity exists only to expand it's reach, scope and power.
    somebody did not read the linked article closely, otherwise they would have found this:
    Notwithstanding the recession, government employment grew last year, inching up 16,000, to 22,516,000, according to the bureau.
    16 000 / 22 516 000 = 0.000710605791 ... a .07% federal union growth rate. a real stunner

    and you tell us that the government is a parasitic organism without purpose other than to expand. that knock on your door could be the secret service wanting to speak with you about your unseemly views of the government
    3. federal government outside that provided by the constitution is not only unconstitutional it is a drain on the GDP...
    ok. i'll look forward to an exhaustive post identifying all of the government entitles which are disallowed by the Constitution. with you around to make these calls, who needs the supreme court


    Unions long ago gave up the fight for workers and took on the role of institutional rape of various industries, municipalities and the minds of the young and impressionable.
    not sure what your point is here other than to vent your anti-union animus
    the topic is that the magnitude of the public sector unions has exceeded the presence of the private industry unions ... yet you are villifying both. and doing a piss poor job of it, too, proving a little bit of ignorance goes a long, long way. here's a hint. offer up a supportable rebuttal expressing why unions are detrimental to our society

    Union LEADERS and their associations with global elitists and leftists in general are the problem.. NOT the workers!
    wow, i'm a union official, and am neither elite nor leftist, and seldom am i a problem. and before retirement, i was a worker ... as are MOST union officials
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  9. #19
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    Re: Great News!

    Quote Originally Posted by Winnb View Post
    So do cops, fireman, and nurses. Many of them are unionized. Why should they not be able to unionize and fight for their benefits and rights? They have families, mortgages, medical expenses, etc... just like everyone else.
    It's not about the people. It's about the nature of the work they do.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  10. #20
    Educator Winnb's Avatar
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    Re: Great News!

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    It's not about the people. It's about the nature of the work they do.

    I'm not following you?
    Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none.

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