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Handling of Ft. Hood shooting suspect could bring discipline

apdst

apdst

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Who would you hold accountable?
 
Boo Radley said:
Who would you hold accountable?
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In this case, I wouldn't any one person accountable. I would hold the system that allowed this situation to fester accountable and then fix it.

Frying these officers isn't going to accomplish anything. It's not going to fix the system. It'll only confound and already confused system.

The next time these conditions exist and officers report them, they'll be accused of some PC crime and then we'll be right back where we were.
 
apdst said:
In this case, I wouldn't any one person accountable. I would hold the system that allowed this situation to fester accountable and then fix it.

Frying these officers isn't going to accomplish anything. It's not going to fix the system. It'll only confound and already confused system.

The next time these conditions exist and officers report them, they'll be accused of some PC crime and then we'll be right back where we were.
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I may agree, depending on what in the system you see as needing fixing.
 
Boo Radley said:
I may agree, depending on what in the system you see as needing fixing.
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It's simple: leaders shouldn't be afraid of negative fallout when they report a soldier who appears to be a threat to his fellow soldiers.
 
apdst said:
It's simple: leaders shouldn't be afraid of negative fallout when they report a soldier who appears to be a threat to his fellow soldiers.
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Fellow soldiers shouldn't be afraid either because of PC concerns.
 
this is classic cover your ass monday morning quarterbacking by the military

the guy was a shrink
that crap about being unfit and not looking soldierly is so bogus
the military doesn't make doctors play soldier
they expect them to practice medicine

and why should anyone take note that he lived in a cheap apartment on the seedy side of town. i've known people to live well below their means to be able to have the financial ability to help others who need it

his military performance was never unacceptable
he was adamant that his religious views be tolerated
he owned weapons
base your suspicion on that profile and you must then suspect most of those on active duty

and what person is going to risk their career calling out a psychiatrist, insisting that he is too emotional and thus a risk to his unit, when there is absolutely nothing indicated which would have sustained such an allegation

but then this is the same military brass which covered up the pat tillman death, propagandized the jessica lynch rescue, and prosecuted low ranking abu ghraib jailers for following direct orders ... all while liddy is at the white house getting away with disclosing the identity of a covert CIA agent for partisan political purposes

CYA at its worse

God bless America ... we need it
 
apdst said:
In this case, I wouldn't any one person accountable. I would hold the system that allowed this situation to fester accountable and then fix it.

Frying these officers isn't going to accomplish anything. It's not going to fix the system. It'll only confound and already confused system.

The next time these conditions exist and officers report them, they'll be accused of some PC crime and then we'll be right back where we were.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more.
 
apdst said:
It's simple: leaders shouldn't be afraid of negative fallout when they report a soldier who appears to be a threat to his fellow soldiers.
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And what evidence do we have of there being a possibility of a negative fallout? Or that there was something in the system that demanded a negative fallout? I think many assume things wrongly, and then treat their inaccurate assumptions as if they were fact.
 
Boo Radley said:
And what evidence do we have of there being a possibility of a negative fallout? Or that there was something in the system that demanded a negative fallout? I think many assume things wrongly, and then treat their inaccurate assumptions as if they were fact.
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What evidence? Two words, "Flying Immams".
 
Boo Radley said:
You'll have to do better. Explain.
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These passengers were sued for making a big deal out the suspicious behavior of Muslim passengers. You think they'll be less reluctant to report suspicious behavior in the future? Or, anyone else in the same situation, for that matter?

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Imams_controversy]Flying Imams controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
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apdst said:
These passengers were sued for making a big deal out the suspicious behavior of Muslim passengers. You think they'll be less reluctant to report suspicious behavior in the future? Or, anyone else in the same situation, for that matter?

Flying Imams controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Are you suggesting US officers are equal to passengers? Not to mention that job performance is different than just being on a plane. Your reference doesn't really explain anything.
 
Boo Radley said:
Are you suggesting US officers are equal to passengers? Not to mention that job performance is different than just being on a plane. Your reference doesn't really explain anything.
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The point is, that those passengers showed some intiative and got sued for their dilegence. In the future, they won't say anything and the next time might be an actual operation. Then, people won't worry about getting sued and we'll start all over again.

The same scenario exists with these officers.
 
apdst said:
The point is, that those passengers showed some intiative and got sued for their dilegence. In the future, they won't say anything and the next time might be an actual operation. Then, people won't worry about getting sued and we'll start all over again.

The same scenario exists with these officers.
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That's a civilian example. Hasan was in the military. Do better and find a military example. What happens in civilian life has little to do with what happens in the military.
 
CrusaderRabbit08 said:
That's a civilian example. Hasan was in the military. Do better and find a military example. What happens in civilian life has little to do with what happens in the military.
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It's all the same thing, dude. Try some common sense for a change.

Have you ever been in the military? Are you familiar with an EO board?
 
apdst said:
It's all the same thing, dude. Try some common sense for a change.

Have you ever been in the military? Are you familiar with an EO board?
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Ok, I ask this in all honesty.

If they did report suspicious behaviour and that was found to be false, why would they suffer if they can prove that such suspicion was warrented in the first place?
We had very similar type situations back in my time as subversive groups tried to use our military for weapons training, tactics, explosive training etc. The first line of defence against that type of practice was the other soldiers in the batallion....?
 
Alvin T. Grey said:
Ok, I ask this in all honesty.

If they did report suspicious behaviour and that was found to be false, why would they suffer if they can prove that such suspicion was warrented in the first place?
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Hasan could have made a complaint to the equal oppurtunity board. These officers would have been reviewed by the EO board and the review would have become a permanent part of their record and it goes on that officers command fitness report.

Now, you're a brigade commander and you need to promote a new commander to one of your battalions. Are you going to pick the guy with an EO board review on his record, or are you going to pick another guy that is just as qualified and doesn't have an EO review? Be honest.

Remember, you're a commander, too. You have a command fitness report to worry about, too. You're responsible for the actions of the men under your command. Are you really going to give command to an officer with an official charge of prejudice behavior?

We had very similar type situations back in my time as subversive groups tried to use our military for weapons training, tactics, explosive training etc. The first line of defence against that type of practice was the other soldiers in the batallion....?
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They were probably white Christians, too. Am I close?
 
apdst said:
The point is, that those passengers showed some intiative and got sued for their dilegence. In the future, they won't say anything and the next time might be an actual operation. Then, people won't worry about getting sued and we'll start all over again.

The same scenario exists with these officers.
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We already had a next time, and passengers did act. There is nothing to that supposition of yours here. Nor does it apply to military officers dong a job performance evaluation. These are professionals evaluating another professional. They do not compare to the civilians.
 
Boo Radley said:
We already had a next time, and passengers did act. There is nothing to that supposition of yours here. Nor does it apply to military officers dong a job performance evaluation. These are professionals evaluating another professional. They do not compare to the civilians.
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When was that? And, the Chistmas attack isn't the same thingm unless you mean that a Muslim dude, with no luggage, paid cash for a one way ticket to Detroit and no one did jack **** about it.

They are professionals evaluating professionals. But, just like--even moreso-- in the private sector political correctness plays a huge part in that evaluation process.

If you've never been in the service, you can't imagine how easily it is to get pinned with a racism charge and how that can affect your career, especially during a peace time military where the government is getting rid of active duty officers for any little excuse they can find.
 
apdst said:
When was that? And, the Chistmas attack isn't the same thingm unless you mean that a Muslim dude, with no luggage, paid cash for a one way ticket to Detroit and no one did jack **** about it.

They are professionals evaluating professionals. But, just like--even moreso-- in the private sector political correctness plays a huge part in that evaluation process.

If you've never been in the service, you can't imagine how easily it is to get pinned with a racism charge and how that can affect your career, especially during a peace time military where the government is getting rid of active duty officers for any little excuse they can find.
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It was the same thing, only with a reason as opposed to not having a reason. So, nothing important has been hindered.

You merely assume political correctness plays a role and have not shown that it does in anyway. And any professional who let it play a role should be fired.

BTW, I have been in the service. 82nd Airborne, HHB division arty.
 
Boo Radley said:
It was the same thing, only with a reason as opposed to not having a reason. So, nothing important has been hindered.

You merely assume political correctness plays a role and have not shown that it does in anyway. And any professional who let it play a role should be fired.

BTW, I have been in the service. 82nd Airborne, HHB division arty.
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Thank you for your service.

Then, you understand what it means to have an EO review placed in your 201 file.
 
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