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Thread: Gasoline prices zip toward $3 mark

  1. #71
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    Re: Gasoline prices zip toward $3 mark

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Than why does Canada do it?
    Are you referring to Canada's oil sands?
    Production of oil from Canadas oil sands has been cut due to the drop in oil prices.
    Oil shale is a different animal. There really isn't oil in oil shale.

    Oil shale, an organic-rich fine-grained sedimentary rock, contains significant amounts of kerogen (a solid mixture of organic chemical compounds) from which technology can be used to extract liquid hydrocarbons. The name oil shale is a misnomer as geologists would not necessarily classify the rock as a shale, and its kerogen differs from crude oil
    Last edited by Dirty Harry; 01-15-10 at 08:46 PM.

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    Re: Gasoline prices zip toward $3 mark

    Quote Originally Posted by Porchev View Post
    Price controls are wrong no matter who does it.


    Executive Order 12287
    Decontrol of crude oil and refined petroleum products

    •Signed: January 28, 1981
    •Federal Register page and date: 46 FR 9909; January 30, 1981
    Ronald Reagan Executive Orders - 1981
    The deregulation actually began under Carter, not Reagan. Carter deregulated airlines, trucking, railroads, oil and interest rates, and set up much of the deregulation machinery that Reagan would later use.
    The bill Reagan signed a week after he took office was initiated by Carter. Reagan did not come up with the deregulation bill in 7 days.

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    Re: Gasoline prices zip toward $3 mark

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    In addition to the historical record, I built my own passive solar house in 1984 and have never achieved less than 50% reduction in energy needs for heating and cooling. And it costs me no more than conventional construction.
    If this were true for everyone, then why wouldn't every single building be constructed like this?

    From your link:

    On average, however, passive houses are still up to 14% more expensive upfront than conventional buildings.
    Since construction costs run $80-200/sqft, meaning that an average 2,000 sq ft house would cost between $160k and $400k to build, adding 14% to that cost would mean that you'd pay an extra $22k to $56k in order to build a passive house.

    So yea - much like windmills or solar panels, "passive houses" are bad investments for the average person who isn't able to spend that extra money upfront to feel good about themselves and save a few hundred dollars a year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    That oil is extremely expensive to extract. Only when gasoline is back over 5 bucks a gallon will it be profitable to produce.
    The dominant question for shale oil production is under what conditions shale oil is economically viable. The various attempts to develop oil shale deposits have succeeded only when the shale-oil production cost in a given region is lower than the price of petroleum or its other substitutes. According to a survey conducted by the RAND Corporation, the cost of producing a barrel of shale oil at a hypothetical surface retorting complex in the United States (comprising a mine, retorting plant, upgrading plant, supporting utilities, and spent shale reclamation), would range between US$70–95 ($440–600/m3), adjusted to 2005 values). Assuming a gradual increase in output after the start of commercial production, the analysis expects a gradual reduction in its processing cost to $30–40 per barrel ($190–250/m3) after achieving the milestone of 1 billion barrels (160×10^6 m3).[9][38] Royal Dutch Shell has announced that its Shell ICP technology would realize a profit when crude oil prices are higher than $30 per barrel ($190/m3), while some technologies at full-scale production assert profitability at oil prices even lower than $20 per barrel ($130/m3).
    Much like other technologies, it sounds like it will become quite cheap once its done on a larger scale and the technology is refined.

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shale_oil_extraction]Shale oil extraction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
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    Re: Gasoline prices zip toward $3 mark

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Much like other technologies, it sounds like it will become quite cheap once its done on a larger scale and the technology is refined.

    Shale oil extraction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I remember studying oil shale in geology class in the early 70s. They were touting then how it would solve our energy problems but the technology still hasn't got there to make it economically feasible. It can not compete with sweet crude coming out of the ground. It just takes too much energy to extract it. Coal liquification and compressed natural gas might be better alternatives.
    We have had 60 years to come up with technology to make oil shale profitable and haven't done it..

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    Re: Gasoline prices zip toward $3 mark

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    The deregulation actually began under Carter, not Reagan. Carter deregulated airlines, trucking, railroads, oil and interest rates, and set up much of the deregulation machinery that Reagan would later use.
    The bill Reagan signed a week after he took office was initiated by Carter. Reagan did not come up with the deregulation bill in 7 days.
    ..........
    Last edited by Porchev; 01-15-10 at 09:01 PM. Reason: This site is messing up...

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    Re: Gasoline prices zip toward $3 mark

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    The deregulation actually began under Carter, not Reagan. Carter deregulated airlines, trucking, railroads, oil and interest rates, and set up much of the deregulation machinery that Reagan would later use.
    The bill Reagan signed a week after he took office was initiated by Carter. Reagan did not come up with the deregulation bill in 7 days.
    It's not a bill, it's an actual executive order. That is really funny though about Carter being a big deregulation guy.

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    Re: Gasoline prices zip toward $3 mark

    Quote Originally Posted by Porchev View Post
    It's not a bill, it's an actual executive order. That is really funny though about Carter being a big deregulation guy.
    First, Carter announced gradual decontrol of oil prices and the phasing out of the Keystone-Cops like government allocation system. However, Carter also pushed a "Windfall Profits Tax" on the belief that decontrol would bring higher prices and, thus, higher profits to oil companies that "really don't deserve them." The Wall Street Journal so opposed Carter's oil tax that it published an editorial, "Death of Reason," on the day Congress passed the tax, bordering the editorial in black.

    Full decontrol was scheduled to take place in the spring of 1981, but Reagan upon taking office lifted controls almost immediately, thus receiving credit for what was mostly the action of his predecessor. While Carter was mistaken in his belief that decontrol would automatically increase oil profits (many investors also made the same error), one must also recognize the political heat he took for his actions, especially from the left. Ralph Nader, who had endorsed Carter as a "breath of fresh air" just four years earlier, denounced oil decontrol as "the greatest anti-consumer action of this century" and predicted $600 a barrel oil by 1990.
    Last edited by Dirty Harry; 01-15-10 at 09:13 PM.

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    Re: Gasoline prices zip toward $3 mark

    Quote Originally Posted by Porchev View Post
    It's not a bill, it's an actual executive order. That is really funny though about Carter being a big deregulation guy.
    First, Carter announced gradual decontrol of oil prices and the phasing out of the Keystone-Cops like government allocation system. However, Carter also pushed a "Windfall Profits Tax" on the belief that decontrol would bring higher prices and, thus, higher profits to oil companies that "really don't deserve them." The Wall Street Journal so opposed Carter's oil tax that it published an editorial, "Death of Reason," on the day Congress passed the tax, bordering the editorial in black.

    Full decontrol was scheduled to take place in the spring of 1981, but Reagan upon taking office lifted controls almost immediately, thus receiving credit for what was mostly the action of his predecessor. While Carter was mistaken in his belief that decontrol would automatically increase oil profits (many investors also made the same error), one must also recognize the political heat he took for his actions, especially from the left. Ralph Nader, who had endorsed Carter as a "breath of fresh air" just four years earlier, denounced oil decontrol as "the greatest anti-consumer action of this century" and predicted $600 a barrel oil by 1990.

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    Re: Gasoline prices zip toward $3 mark

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    First, Carter announced gradual decontrol of oil prices and the phasing out of the Keystone-Cops like government allocation system. However, Carter also pushed a "Windfall Profits Tax" on the belief that decontrol would bring higher prices and, thus, higher profits to oil companies that "really don't deserve them." The Wall Street Journal so opposed Carter's oil tax that it published an editorial, "Death of Reason," on the day Congress passed the tax, bordering the editorial in black.

    Full decontrol was scheduled to take place in the spring of 1981, but Reagan upon taking office lifted controls almost immediately, thus receiving credit for what was mostly the action of his predecessor. While Carter was mistaken in his belief that decontrol would automatically increase oil profits (many investors also made the same error), one must also recognize the political heat he took for his actions, especially from the left. Ralph Nader, who had endorsed Carter as a "breath of fresh air" just four years earlier, denounced oil decontrol as "the greatest anti-consumer action of this century" and predicted $600 a barrel oil by 1990.
    I am new here, but I think the rules on this forum say this should have a link.
    (Painting Carter this way is pretty entertaining to me.)

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    Re: Gasoline prices zip toward $3 mark

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    You do know the difference between commodities like crude oil and gasoline and a retail company like Walmart, don't you?
    Remember when crude was at it's peak? Oil profits were at theirs too.
    The truth is whether you will admit it or not is that oil companies like high gas prices.

    Interesting article:
    Gas Prices Are High and Likely Going Higher in Spring and Summer 2010 - DailyFinance

    The second major reason U.S. gasoline prices are rising is tied to the companies that actually produce the product. Refiners' margins -- the profit they earn from refining crude oil into gasoline -- have dropped, so they've decreased production, which has resulted in less gasoline being made. Refiners are buying high-cost crude, but gasoline demand remains modest, which lowers the price they can sell the refined crude (gasoline) for. As the profit margin shrinks to unacceptably low levels, refiners stop refining gasoline.
    Since you failed to explain the difference you don't know it either. Carry on.
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