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Thread: Pro-Life Advocates Plan to Protest Opening of Largest Abortion Clinic in U.S

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    Re: Pro-Life Advocates Plan to Protest Opening of Largest Abortion Clinic in U.S

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    They have denounced it in the strongest of terms over and over again. If you haven't heard it, it's because you weren't listening.
    Kind of like Muslims who have denounced terrorism, yet people go around saying "why don't they denounce terrorism?"

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    Re: Pro-Life Advocates Plan to Protest Opening of Largest Abortion Clinic in U.S

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Kind of like Muslims who have denounced terrorism, yet people go around saying "why don't they denounce terrorism?"
    Precisely.

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    Re: Pro-Life Advocates Plan to Protest Opening of Largest Abortion Clinic in U.S

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Kind of like Muslims who have denounced terrorism, yet people go around saying "why don't they denounce terrorism?"
    That's pretty thin gruel. There have been a few, isolated, sparse instances of Muslim leaders denouncing terrorism -- in fact, those fatwas proferred by a few Canadian imams recently are the first fatwas of their kind -- but nowhere near to the extent of vigor or universality to which anti-abortion violence has been denounced.
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    Re: Pro-Life Advocates Plan to Protest Opening of Largest Abortion Clinic in U.S

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    That's pretty thin gruel. There have been a few, isolated, sparse instances of Muslim leaders denouncing terrorism -- in fact, those fatwas proferred by a few Canadian imams recently are the first fatwas of their kind -- but nowhere near to the extent of vigor or universality to which anti-abortion violence has been denounced.
    Really?

    You've counted them both?

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    Re: Pro-Life Advocates Plan to Protest Opening of Largest Abortion Clinic in U.S

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Really?

    You've counted them both?
    Have you? You made the initial comparison.

    Leaders of the pro-life movement routinely condemn any violence and extremism as a matter of course, and that includes religious leaders.

    The equivalent thing in the Muslim world is the fatwa, and those Canadian imams are the only ones to have issued one.

    Do you have other examples? Any other fatwas? Or even Muslim leaders strongly condemning every act of Muslim terrorism?
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    Re: Pro-Life Advocates Plan to Protest Opening of Largest Abortion Clinic in U.S

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Have you? You made the initial comparison.
    I didn't make any claims about numbers.

    But I am familiar with some of the denunciations, and they are alot more than most people think. I know they are more than zero.

    But this isn't a football game where the people with more points wins.

    Leaders of the pro-life movement routinely condemn any violence and extremism as a matter of course, and that includes religious leaders.
    The equivalent thing in the Muslim world is the fatwa, and those Canadian imams are the only ones to have issued one.
    No, the equivalent is not a fatwa. Any condemnation counts.

    Do you have other examples? Any other fatwas? Or even Muslim leaders strongly condemning every act of Muslim terrorism?
    A simple Google search found a fatwa against terrorism by U.S. clerics in 2005:

    U.S. Muslims issue ?fatwa? against terrorism - U.S. news- msnbc.com

    And here is one from India in 2008:

    Muslim seminary issues fatwa against terrorism - Asia, World - The Independent

    Took me a few seconds to find these. There may be more. Don't just assume things.
    Last edited by misterman; 01-10-10 at 08:02 PM.

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    Re: Pro-Life Advocates Plan to Protest Opening of Largest Abortion Clinic in U.S

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    I didn't make any claims about numbers.

    But I am familiar with some of the denunciations, and they are alot more than most people think. I know they are more than zero.

    But this isn't a football game where the people with more points wins.
    You're making an apples/apples comparison, so there ought to be balance.



    No, the equivalent is not a fatwa. Any condemnation counts.
    Sorry, it has to be comparable if you're going to make the comparison. Sure, you can find individuals who will condemn it, but that's not the same as the leadership condemning it. The equivalent is a fatwa, because that's how the Muslim leadership does that sort of thing officially.

    But I would accept some other official word by leadership even if it's not called a "fatwa."



    A simple Google search found a fatwa against terrorism by U.S. clerics in 2005:

    U.S. Muslims issue ?fatwa? against terrorism - U.S. news- msnbc.com

    And here is one from India in 2008:

    Muslim seminary issues fatwa against terrorism - Asia, World - The Independent

    Took me a few seconds to find these. There may be more. Don't just assume things.
    Well, good, then what I read about the Canadian fatwa was either wrong or misleading. And I did say there were isolated denunciations.

    But no, the level of condemnation simply isn't comparable. The mainstream pro-life movement condemns the violence unequivocally, every time.

    Mainstream Islam does not.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Pro-Life Advocates Plan to Protest Opening of Largest Abortion Clinic in U.S

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    But I would accept some other official word by leadership even if it's not called a "fatwa."
    I was just going to make the same point.

    Well, good, then what I read about the Canadian fatwa was either wrong or misleading.
    Yep.

    But no, the level of condemnation simply isn't comparable. The mainstream pro-life movement condemns the violence unequivocally, every time.
    It does? Every time? All leaders?

    Mainstream Islam does not.
    What is "mainstream islam?" And why do they have to condemn it every time? Isn't being on record once enough?

    And let's get to the point - why does anyone have to denounce anything? You can't hold someone responsible for something they didn't do just because they didn't denounce it. Nobody - pro-lifers or Muslims - is obligated to denounce anything in the first place.

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    Re: Pro-Life Advocates Plan to Protest Opening of Largest Abortion Clinic in U.S

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    It does? Every time? All leaders?
    It doesn't happen very often, and yes, every time. The leaders of the prominent organizations do -- not least because they're all asked for official statements.


    What is "mainstream islam?" And why do they have to condemn it every time? Isn't being on record once enough?
    You made the comparison.


    And let's get to the point - why does anyone have to denounce anything? You can't hold someone responsible for something they didn't do just because they didn't denounce it. Nobody - pro-lifers or Muslims - is obligated to denounce anything in the first place.
    Never said anything about holding anyone responsible. But it's pretty much beside the point, and again, you brought it up.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Pro-Life Advocates Plan to Protest Opening of Largest Abortion Clinic in U.S

    I'm just going to shoot from the hip here, no numbers or anything. But I'm fairly certain suicide bombers answering the call to jihad somewhat outweigh the amount of Christian, er, Crusaders (?) that blow up abortion clinics.

    So, from that perspective, it does seem a shoe-in whether... Well, whatever salient point you two are discussing.
    Last edited by Areopagitican; 01-10-10 at 09:02 PM.

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