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Thread: Dems not worried about post-vote backlash at home

  1. #31
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    Re: Dems not worried about post-vote backlash at home

    the independent swell in virginia and new jersey just 2 months ago was pointedly anti obama

    mcdonnell ran an almost national campaign---focusing on cap and trade, health care, taxes and debt, card check

    the only state issue that reached prominence was commuter concerns in the north

    in jersey, obama was at corzine's side constantly and the billionaire former goldman sachs ceo associated himself with the president about as much as a candidate can

    independents swung something like 30 points towards red between jan 20 and nov 3, it was the big story out of those crucial states

    the tea party, according to nbc two weeks ago, polls ahead of both dems and reds, 41 to 35 to 28

    the independents are speaking very loudly

    one must be whistling awful loud not to hear

    seniors are even more incensed

    as far as the energy on the left, another lesson out of virginia and jersey was the sapping of the youth and african american vote

    THIS BILL is hated at large, those STRONGLY opposed exceed 50%

    it's symbolic of the party's approach and aspirations

    it's really, really gonna hurt

    ben nelson is down THIRTY ONE points in nebraska

    dorgan trails by TWENTY TWO in dakota

    dodd is dead

    reid, INCUMBENT SPEAKER, trails to little red wannabe's by half a dozen

    lincoln, specter, bennett of colorado, biden's seat in delaware---DEM INCUMBENTS---SENATORS---in that much trouble

    you think health care isn't what's going on?

    forgive me---LOL!

  2. #32
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    Re: Dems not worried about post-vote backlash at home

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I think you would be surprised at how adamant the left is for health care reform, even when amongst ourselves we cannot decide what reforms we want. Reform is important to us. I think you strongly underestimate how much this does energize us, even if we don't 100 % agree with the bill.
    Except that there is no "us". Liberals are NOT a uniform group, and they disagree with each other on this bill. While some liberals are okay with the final bill, many liberals were energized in the opposite direction; MoveOn.org campaigned to get liberal Senators to vote AGAINST the reform. Seeing as liberals are only 20% of the population, the fact that so many of them are so disenchanted with the bill, while conservatives are uniformly opposed to the bill, and strongly so, is not a good sign for Democrats.

    Independents are, as best I can tell, mostly not going to vote on this issue. I see independents voting the economy much moreso than liberals or conservatives, which is why I see the economy being the issue come election time, and it's much too early to say what the economy will be like come November. It's important to remember that just because you support or oppose a bill does not mean you are going to vote based on that bill. Some people vote based on gun rights, or a desire for gun restrictions, whereas others(like myself), while having a position on the issue, would never actually base my vote on that issue.
    According to Gallup, about two-thirds of the population say that the health care vote will affect how they vote in 2010. Other polls I've seen has put that number even higher. Argue with these numbers all you want, but they reflect common sense. It is crazy to think that such a huge, unpopular bill wouldn't affect people's votes. It won't be the only factor, sure, but it'll have an effect regardless.

  3. #33
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    Re: Dems not worried about post-vote backlash at home

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Last I checked, it aint doing so well, ever since the Dems took office in '06.
    LEt me give you a clue.....GWB and the Repubs had driven our economy into the ground waaaaay before that. Oh...and most signs indicate that the economy is on the rebound. I hope that is true.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  4. #34
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    Re: Dems not worried about post-vote backlash at home

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    No offense but you're showing a profound ignorance of local politics here. The fact is that most of those blue-dog Democrats who "act like Republicans" (which isn't true to begin with, but never mind that) are elected in Republican-leaning districts. If they weren't so moderate, they would fail to be elected and a Republican would win instead. The Democrats need those blue-dogs.

    You might be interested in this; Nate Silver calculates the "most valuable" and "least valuable" Democrats to the Democratic Party as a whole:
    FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: 2009's Most Valuable Democrat Is...
    No....I am aware of that. I understand the need for Bluedogs....however, when Bluedogs only act like Republicans....whats the difference?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  5. #35
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    Re: Dems not worried about post-vote backlash at home

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    LEt me give you a clue.....GWB and the Repubs had driven our economy into the ground waaaaay before that.
    Yeah, no that's not even close to correct. Let me give you the answer, the problems started way before the last 20 years and even before the 1970's, but the bad policies of about 39 years or so have really exacerbated things, it is a bi-partisan problem with no current solutions, overreach in federal programs and regulations are the beginning, the economics of the last 40 years have created false economies, i.e. bubbles that tend to burst on a pretty regular basis. Unlike you I analyze these things constantly for....you know......my profession and it's future, but please don't let that stop you from your partisan "Bush bad" rant. Hate to break it to you, but politicians and their ideas suck on a bi-partisan basis, and both sides have contributed to this.
    Oh...and most signs indicate that the economy is on the rebound. I hope that is true.
    It isn't, every gain day is negated by two loss days, while the Dow is back to about 10k it isn't solidly there, the gains aren't what they were and there still isn't a whole lot of hiring, I also hope the indices are correct, but there are signs of a double-dip recession in the wings as well.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  6. #36
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    Re: Dems not worried about post-vote backlash at home

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Except that there is no "us". Liberals are NOT a uniform group, and they disagree with each other on this bill. While some liberals are okay with the final bill, many liberals were energized in the opposite direction; MoveOn.org campaigned to get liberal Senators to vote AGAINST the reform. Seeing as liberals are only 20% of the population, the fact that so many of them are so disenchanted with the bill, while conservatives are uniformly opposed to the bill, and strongly so, is not a good sign for Democrats.
    We are not a uniform, homogenized group, no. However, we pretty much all agree on the need for health care reform, and outside of a few fringe elements, realize that some reform is better than none.



    According to Gallup, about two-thirds of the population say that the health care vote will affect how they vote in 2010. Other polls I've seen has put that number even higher. Argue with these numbers all you want, but they reflect common sense. It is crazy to think that such a huge, unpopular bill wouldn't affect people's votes. It won't be the only factor, sure, but it'll have an effect regardless.
    It's what is in the news right now. By summer, it won't be in the news, the economy still will be, and it is what most people will vote on.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Dems not worried about post-vote backlash at home

    by summer everyone will forget

    LOL!

    such a powerful position

    so revealing a concession

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    Re: Dems not worried about post-vote backlash at home

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    by summer everyone will forget

    LOL!

    such a powerful position

    so revealing a concession
    Hi, what a powerful misrepresentation of what I said. Good job, keep up the good work.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  9. #39
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    Re: Dems not worried about post-vote backlash at home

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    We are not a uniform, homogenized group, no. However, we pretty much all agree on the need for health care reform, and outside of a few fringe elements, realize that some reform is better than none.
    That's a bit ridiculous, since "reform" is just a word for change and unless people think that the current system is the very worst theoretically possible system, they wouldn't just back any reform for the sole reason of backing a reform; and if they do, then frankly they don't have many brains. The liberals who oppose the bill might be in the minority of liberals, but they're hardly in the fringe. And even those who did appreciate it as a modest improvement are hardly "energized" by it to the same extent that its opponents are.

    It's what is in the news right now. By summer, it won't be in the news, the economy still will be, and it is what most people will vote on.
    That's not what happened in 1994. People's memories aren't as short-term as you're giving them credit for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Hi, what a powerful misrepresentation of what I said. Good job, keep up the good work.
    That basically is what you said.

  10. #40
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    Re: Dems not worried about post-vote backlash at home

    maureen dowd is certainly energized, holy cow

    obama can't find his pulse, she explains:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/30/op...dowd.html?_r=1

    some of the saltier sallies from ms dowd's piece:

    the bribes and pork in his hallmark legislation

    the secrecy

    the expanded executive privilege

    doubling down in afghanistan while pretending to get out

    (this is all ms dowd talking, mind you)

    a nigerian with powder in his pants, a syringe with acid, who's own father fingered him, pays with cash, carries no luggage, the brits pulled his visa, who learned arabic in yemen and is on a watch list---if you can't catch him, who can you catch, complains the catwoman

    she keeps calling obama, spock

    in his usual uninspiring, listless way

    (read the op ed if you want, i'm just trying to save you time)

    he should at least SEEM concerned, considers dowd

    flying by the seat of his pants

    had to admit what napolitano denied

    i'll quote her conclusion direct:

    In his detached way, Spock was letting us know that our besieged starship was not speeding into a safer new future, and that we still have to be scared.

    Heck of a job, Barry.
    wow, that seems rather harsh

    especially considering the source

    a week ago william daley came out against obama, just as hard

    time for choosing, daley declared, obama's way or survival

    dean broder echoed daley days later, specifically calling for the president to heed daley's advice

    i saw it before when der speigel, after the asia trip, headlined, "obama's nice guy act gets him nowhere on the world stage"

    the next day, cfr, the council on foreign relations, put out a piece on the same topic, obama's meetings with hu, titled, "amateur hour at the white house"

    keith olbermann bellowed he would cancel his health care and go to jail before buying govt mandated private insurance

    and now dowd

    there's no denying, the president has lost a great deal of influence

    sure, the left is all amped up for obama

    meet virginia
    Last edited by The Prof; 12-31-09 at 10:16 PM.

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