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President Obama: Federal Government 'Will Go Bankrupt' if Health Care Costs Are Not R

Re: President Obama: Federal Government 'Will Go Bankrupt' if Health Care Costs Are N

Yeah OC crowing the Obama line is "Non-partisan".

Anyway, back to reality. There is wisdom in this: " America will fail when the people realize they can vote themselves gold from the treasury".

We're living that today. The Liberals latches onto this first, FDR pushed it hard, getting votes by offering Government "assistance". LBJ pushed it harder, and most of the Dem's in the House and Senate live by it. Obama is just pushing for the Coup de Grace as it were, with "Healthcare reform".

The GOP went soft, and Bush, while a strong military President, and he was, was weak on the Domestic Front and let the GOP Controlled House and Senate play the same game. Those in power were not help in check by the voters, got tooo comfy playing the "spend for Votes and Power" game and got tossed. Sadly, American's tend to be IDIOTS in this respect and replaced bad with worse.

When you are facing a financial shortfall, you don't spend more, you cut spending, cut taxes (to promote economic growth) and get out of the way of the economy. Sadly, the Difference between the Left and the Right is simple and yet profound. The Liberals believe in centralized control. The Right as a general rule does not... though they haven't behaved well in the last ten years!

This house of cards is gonna come crashing down hard unless we the people stand up and say "STOP THIS **** NOW". But we've got a generation of dependent fools that fear not having Government there to save them from themselves.
 
Re: President Obama: Federal Government 'Will Go Bankrupt' if Health Care Costs Are N

Yeah OC crowing the Obama line is "Non-partisan".

Care to examine the projections for total medicare costs over the next 50 years?

Or are you just being your typical "Find ANYTHING to hit OC on, doesn't matter how ridiculous or insane it is?" Medicare was doomed when Clinton was in office. How am I crowing the Obama line when I stated that?

Anyway, back to reality. There is wisdom in this: " America will fail when the people realize they can vote themselves gold from the treasury".

Hmm. So I take it you are for campaign finance laws that prohibit corporations from doing just that?

When you are facing a financial shortfall, you don't spend more, you cut spending

Tell me, how did that work out for Hoover? :rofl

Yes, let's cut spending, which reduces the total flow of money into the economy, which causes thousands of people to lose their jobs due to spending multipliers which then causes us to spend even more money on automatic stabilizers. Are we trying to destroy the economy? Because that's what it sounds like under your plan. So thus, we have fewer people in jobs with higher unemployment costs. Good Job Mr. V. You've destroyed the American Economy.

cut taxes (to promote economic growth)

Assuming that current rates are to the right of the ideal marginal propensity to work on the Laffer Curve. Good luck proving that. Especially when the Laffer curve is little more then a conceptualized sociological phenomena. :2wave:

Not to mention cutting personal income taxes when those are not the real inhibitors of new jobs is kind of stupid.

The Right as a general rule does not... though they haven't behaved well in the last ten years!

Actions always mean more then words. The Democrats and Republicans are cut from the same cloth.
 
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Re: President Obama: Federal Government 'Will Go Bankrupt' if Health Care Costs Are N

Let's look at a study from the Bush Years:

Within 100 years, the 90 percent confidence interval for Medicare costs as a percent of GDP spans more than 30 percentage points
....

Medicare costs are estimated to be 7.0 percent of GDP by 2030, 10.0
percent in 2050, and 13.9 percent by 2080.

HOLY CRAP.

www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=5770

Issues in Economics Today - Google Books

And various parts of Medicare/aid were projected to go broke well before Obama was even elected to the Senate.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-62929176.html

White House Medicare Study Supports Clinton's Medicare Budget Proposal

Medicare was projected to go belly long ago. Do you really think that constantly funding it with such extreme growth projections is not going to cause serious financial problems to the point of potential bankruptcy?
 
Re: President Obama: Federal Government 'Will Go Bankrupt' if Health Care Costs Are N

I'm just curious why you think the left is solely responsible for the behavior of the federal reserve?

It's not, but the Left tends to unleash that beast.
 
Re: President Obama: Federal Government 'Will Go Bankrupt' if Health Care Costs Are N

And Obama's not wrong. Projections on medicare/aid are pretty grim to the point where they are virtually encompassing the budget and many of these were done back in the end days of Clinton.

The looming fiscal problems we are facing have been ignored and shoved under the rug for many years, mostly so that politicians can keep getting re-elected, and the worst part of it all (to me) is that any politician who has the cahones to get up there and speak the truth will be run out of town. Our government (with full support of the public) has created a monster who will come calling one of these days, and most of the public is completely ignorant of what is happening.
 
Re: President Obama: Federal Government 'Will Go Bankrupt' if Health Care Costs Are N

The looming fiscal problems we are facing have been ignored and shoved under the rug for many years, mostly so that politicians can keep getting re-elected, and the worst part of it all (to me) is that any politician who has the cahones to get up there and speak the truth will be run out of town. Our government (with full support of the public) has created a monster who will come calling one of these days, and most of the public is completely ignorant of what is happening.

100% on the money. And Mr. V has the gall to say I'm towing the Obama line when anyone with a brain knows that Medicare was doomed back in 1998. Our government is pretty much screwing us whenever it can. Even social security reformer Bush effectively stole billions out of the SS trust.
 
Re: President Obama: Federal Government 'Will Go Bankrupt' if Health Care Costs Are N

I was a bit surprised at Dean's response as well.

The sad fact of the matter is that the US government may end up going bankrupt eventually no matter what we do.

There you go, in black and white. Our government will collapse eventually, one way or another.

This healthcare bill will not really reduce medical costs. It will just force more people to pay into the system. But the system will continue to be overloaded.

Modern medicine is just too darned expensive. It's very, very sophisticated. It relies on extremely expensive equipment and procedures. All these medical advances are breaking the bank. We really can't afford it.
 
Re: President Obama: Federal Government 'Will Go Bankrupt' if Health Care Costs Are N

Modern medicine is just too darned expensive. It's very, very sophisticated. It relies on extremely expensive equipment and procedures. All these medical advances are breaking the bank. We really can't afford it.

It is very expensive, but one of the primary reasons (imo) is mandated HMO's and PPO's. These have created the mindset among Americans that they should not be responsible for their own consumption of health care dollars.
"Free drugs and physician office visits" have contributed to skyrocketing health care costs by making people unaware of overutilization.
 
Re: President Obama: Federal Government 'Will Go Bankrupt' if Health Care Costs Are N

Leftwingers calling the right fearmongers? Look at what this son of a bitch is doing?

If we don't pass proper health care reform, we'll be letting the terrorists win.
 
Re: President Obama: Federal Government 'Will Go Bankrupt' if Health Care Costs Are N

If we don't pass proper health care reform, we'll be letting the terrorists win.
Sources? Proof? eh?
 
Re: President Obama: Federal Government 'Will Go Bankrupt' if Health Care Costs Are N

There you go, in black and white. Our government will collapse eventually, one way or another.

This healthcare bill will not really reduce medical costs. It will just force more people to pay into the system. But the system will continue to be overloaded.

Modern medicine is just too darned expensive. It's very, very sophisticated. It relies on extremely expensive equipment and procedures. All these medical advances are breaking the bank. We really can't afford it.

hmmm.... that we are able to pay for it seems to indicate that we can afford it.

what we can't afford are the future costs of our healthcare and retirement entitlement programs. ponzi schemes only work when you keep bringing in larger numbers of people. obviously privatization is the answer; and its' an answer that has the benefit of being self-reinforcing. bringing market pressure to bear on the medical industry will bring down costs while improving actual care. There is no reason for us to accept lower-quality care simply because our method of payment is driving up price.
 
Re: President Obama: Federal Government 'Will Go Bankrupt' if Health Care Costs Are N

hmmm.... that we are able to pay for it seems to indicate that we can afford it.

what we can't afford are the future costs of our healthcare and retirement entitlement programs. ponzi schemes only work when you keep bringing in larger numbers of people. obviously privatization is the answer; and its' an answer that has the benefit of being self-reinforcing. bringing market pressure to bear on the medical industry will bring down costs while improving actual care. There is no reason for us to accept lower-quality care simply because our method of payment is driving up price.

sounds like circular logic. Where is the market pressure that you will bring to bear? If you mean the government how is that market based?

Would someone tell me how adding demand ( 30 million more people insured) will lower costs?

The beauty of this bill is that it does not really go into effect in 2013. So we won't really know the consequences until after the 2012 elections. Probably a coincidence.
 
Re: President Obama: Federal Government 'Will Go Bankrupt' if Health Care Costs Are N

Nor were the GOP who are arguing not to touch or change Medicare (despite the fact it's broke). Huh. Imagine that.

That was nothing more than a stall tactic to put Democrats on record for voting against Medicare.
 
Re: President Obama: Federal Government 'Will Go Bankrupt' if Health Care Costs Are N

The beauty of this bill is that it does not really go into effect in 2013.
Proof that the real motivation behind "Health Care Reform" has nothing to do with the uninsured or health care costs.
 
Re: President Obama: Federal Government 'Will Go Bankrupt' if Health Care Costs Are N

Sources? Proof? eh?

I think it's a joke to take us down memory lane. Remember the Bush fear mongering we suffered through for the last 8 years?
 
Re: President Obama: Federal Government 'Will Go Bankrupt' if Health Care Costs Are N

sounds like circular logic. Where is the market pressure that you will bring to bear? If you mean the government how is that market based?

government will force people out of the insurance market; which will leave them paying out-of-pocket for 100% of medical expenses.

if that's not market pressure, I don't know what is.

Would someone tell me how adding demand ( 30 million more people insured) will lower costs?

that's sort of the point. that "30 million people added" figure is a joke. sort of like the notion that a half-trillion cut to the one program most important to the one constituency most likely to vote will occur.

The beauty of this bill is that it does not really go into effect in 2013. So we won't really know the consequences until after the 2012 elections. Probably a coincidence.

oh i'm thinking we're going to see some of the effects of those taxes real soon :) certainly in time for 2012 :D
 
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Re: President Obama: Federal Government 'Will Go Bankrupt' if Health Care Costs Are N

I think it's a joke to take us down memory lane. Remember the Bush fear mongering we suffered through for the last 8 years?
Is it or is it not OK for a President to 'fearmonger'?
 
Re: President Obama: Federal Government 'Will Go Bankrupt' if Health Care Costs Are N

I think it's a joke to take us down memory lane. Remember the Bush fear mongering we suffered through for the last 8 years?

You mean referencing those planes flying into building on 911?
Or Iranians chanting Death to the USA?
Idiots trying to light bomb/shoes?
A segment of society that thinks cartoons are evil but beheadings not?
Pym Fortun and Theo van Gogh murdered my radical Islamists?
Or Saddam trying to assassinate a former president?
Or the bombings in London, Madrid, Tunesia, Turkey (all post 911)... or the scores of attempts we do not know about?
The beheadings of civilians?


Yeah... that's fear mongering.
Geez... I guess we shouldn't take the wacko's seriously.


May I suggest you take a beach vacation in Iraq or Iran. Wear an American flag t-shirt and bath towel... please.

But healthcare... 7% of our economy in government control... yeah... we need that... like a hole in the head... especially considering how well it has worked in Europe and Kanuckistan.

.
 
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Re: President Obama: Federal Government 'Will Go Bankrupt' if Health Care Costs Are N

Is it or is it not OK for a President to 'fearmonger'?

Fear mongering is not OK, but Obama and Bush seem to think it is/was.
 
Re: President Obama: Federal Government 'Will Go Bankrupt' if Health Care Costs Are N

Link


Leftwingers calling the right fearmongers? Look at what this son of a bitch is doing?

The President and his team obviously have no clue how to cure runaway costs. But then, adequate answers are rare from any direction. Even competition has its limits.

If we seriously want to control costs, then we all need to accept that some level of restriction of care needs to be practiced, whether by government or private insurers. We individuals need to accept that we can't expect society to be responsible to keep us living at all costs.
 
Re: President Obama: Federal Government 'Will Go Bankrupt' if Health Care Costs Are N

Wrong. The Laffer curve is based on the marginal propensity to work, not tax cuts. At certain, theoretical locations on the curve, more people will work then at higher points. Assuming that the income is taxable, moving from a higher position to a substantially lower position will result in theory, in more tax revenue. While reduction in tax rates are a vital part of the curve, it is not the basis of it.
True, but in relation to Reaganomics it was based on cutting taxes to increase revenues.
 
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