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LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

misterman said:
Nobody's savings is depleted.

The government borrows money to get it out in the economy again. It works just like with a bank. You put your money in, and someone borrows it and spends it on business activity. Nothing unusual about that, and nobody's savings is depleted.

Genius.
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You don't have a clue do you? What grade are you in?
 
apdst said:
You don't have a clue do you? What grade are you in?
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Too bad you can't have an intelligent conversation instead of offering nothing except violations of forum guidelines.
 
misterman said:
Too bad you can't have an intelligent conversation instead of offering nothing except violations of forum guidelines.
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Ok, you want an intelligent conversation? Fine. I'll ask again: where is the money going to come from???
 
apdst said:
Ok, you want an intelligent conversation? Fine. I'll ask again: where is the money going to come from???
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It's borrowed. Didn't you see what I wrote?

Do you mean how will it be paid back?
 
misterman said:
It's borrowed. Didn't you see what I wrote?

Do you mean how will it be paid back?
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Either! One way, or the other, the money is going to coughed up by the private sector. As I said before, government can't create wealth. Wealth can only be created by the private sector.
 
apdst said:
Either! One way, or the other, the money is going to coughed up by the private sector. As I said before, government can't create wealth. Wealth can only be created by the private sector.
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Of course. People create wealth, when they are working. When some aren't, no wealth is created. The government can get them working again. Then they can start creating wealth again, which generates the tax revenue to cover the cost of the stimulus. And they keep working.

Normally, the private sector borrows money and creates jobs. But it's in a slump, and it needs a shot of spending to help it recover. That's temporary. Only the government has the will and borrowing power to do that right now.

This is basic economic theory. I don't mind one bit if you disagree with it, but don't act like it's crazy just because you don't understand it or haven't heard of it.
 
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misterman said:
It's borrowed. Didn't you see what I wrote?
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FROM WHO????????

Do you not see the most basic error in ALL of your posts? The government can not create true wealth. It has to either print it out of thin air or get it from the private sector.

That is apdst's point. Only the private sector can produce the goods and services that create wealth. The government can only regulate it and tax it, which in turn, hurts the private sector's ability to create more wealth.
 
Erod said:
FROM WHO????????
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From the private sector. Are you saying the government can't find money to borrow?

Do you not see the most basic error in ALL of your posts? The government can not create true wealth. It has to either print it out of thin air or get it from the private sector.
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Print it? That's not wealth, that's money you're talking about.

I am not saying, and never said, the government is creating wealth. The government is injecting cash into the private sector in the form of spending to get the private sector to create wealth.

That is apdst's point. Only the private sector can produce the goods and services that create wealth. The government can only regulate it and tax it, which in turn, hurts the private sector's ability to create more wealth.
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The government can regulate, and tax - and spend too. That's all it is doing, spending. That's how it stimulates wealth creation by the private sector.
 
the govt can get folks working again---at a quarter tril per job

LOL!

the private sector can do it too

but only when it's free to act
 
misterman said:
Of course. People create wealth, when they are working. When some aren't, no wealth is created. The government can get them working again. Then they can start creating wealth again, which generates the tax revenue to cover the cost of the stimulus. And they keep working.

Normally, the private sector borrows money and creates jobs. But it's in a slump, and it needs a shot of spending to help it recover. That's temporary. Only the government has the will and borrowing power to do that right now.

This is basic economic theory. I don't mind one bit if you disagree with it, but don't act like it's crazy just because you don't understand it or haven't heard of it.
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The government can't create wealth. Show me a single time, anywhere in history, where any government has created weah. You can't do it!

No matter what the government does, the money has to come from the private sector. Until the private sector stands up on it's own two feet, he economy isn't going to improve. Don't believe me? Just watch and see.
 
Erod said:
FROM WHO????????

Do you not see the most basic error in ALL of your posts? The government can not create true wealth. It has to either print it out of thin air or get it from the private sector.

That is apdst's point. Only the private sector can produce the goods and services that create wealth. The government can only regulate it and tax it, which in turn, hurts the private sector's ability to create more wealth.
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Thank you for putting it better than I could! Why is it so hard for Libbos to see that?
 
apdst said:
The government can't create wealth. Show me a single time, anywhere in history, where any government has created weah. You can't do it!
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You said that already. I agreed with you. What's your point?

No matter what the government does, the money has to come from the private sector. Until the private sector stands up on it's own two feet, he economy isn't going to improve. Don't believe me? Just watch and see.
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The economy can't stand on its own two feet, not for a long long time. How will it do that? It needs a shot in the arm. The government can do that by spending more in the short term. What's so strange about that? The government is simply acting just like a private business might, if it could. The government can afford to borrow and take on debt and risk on a scale that private companies can't right now.

Go read Keynes.
 
misterman said:
From the private sector. Are you saying the government can't find money to borrow?



Print it? That's not wealth, that's money you're talking about.

I am not saying, and never said, the government is creating wealth. The government is injecting cash into the private sector in the form of spending to get the private sector to create wealth.



The government can regulate, and tax - and spend too. That's all it is doing, spending. That's how it stimulates wealth creation by the private sector.
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All they're doing is recycling money. It ain't gonna work. That would be the same thing as an employee paying his employer, then the employer turning around and using that same money to pay the employee's salary. It ain't gonna work!!!!
 
The Prof said:
the govt can get folks working again---at a quarter tril per job

LOL!

the private sector can do it too

but only when it's free to act
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How is it not free to act?
 
misterman said:
You said that already. I agreed with you. What's your point?



The economy can't stand on its own two feet, not for a long long time. How will it do that? It needs a shot in the arm. The government can do that by spending more in the short term. What's so strange about that? The government is simply acting just like a private business might, if it could. The government can afford to borrow and take on debt and risk on a scale that private companies can't right now.

Go read Keynes.
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There's just no getting through to you!...:rofl

Who brainwashed you?
 
apdst said:
All they're doing is recycling money.
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Really? How, exactly.

It ain't gonna work. That would be the same thing as an employee paying his employer, then the employer turning around and using that same money to pay the employee's salary. It ain't gonna work!!!!
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No, not at all, but in a way that's basically how the whole economy works, dude. In a much bigger circle, but that's how it works. You buy, someone else gets paid. They buy, and someone else gets paid. And so on. Value is added along the way. The government is simply buying, and starting that process again.
 
misterman said:
From the private sector. Are you saying the government can't find money to borrow?

^^^^^^^^^
So you want the government to borrow money from the private sector to give to the private sector?


Print it? That's not wealth, that's money you're talking about.

I am not saying, and never said, the government is creating wealth. The government is injecting cash into the private sector in the form of spending to get the private sector to create wealth.

^^^^^^^^^^^
Cash and money are the same thing. At some point, dollar figures must appear in an account, which is money.



The government can regulate, and tax - and spend too. That's all it is doing, spending. That's how it stimulates wealth creation by the private sector.

^^^^^^^^^
Again, you want the government to borrow money, give it away, then tax it, then repay the money it borrowed with the fraction of it that it MIGHT have received in taxes? That is exactly how you end up trillions in debt in the first place.

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Try doing that with your credit card. Make a cash withdrawal, give it to your buddy, take 5 percent annually of what he earns from investing it, and try to pay your credit card bill on time and in full.

The creditors will be calling in three months.
 
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misterman said:
You said that already. I agreed with you. What's your point?



The economy can't stand on its own two feet, not for a long long time. How will it do that?
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There are billions of dollars waiting on the sidelines to invest once the people who don't understand how money is made get out of the way.

Reduce taxes and government spending and make these vastly smarter private citizens feel better about the value of the dollar, and their money will pour into the market.

It's not that hard. What Obama is doing will prolong this for many years, which is what he wants. He's trying to kill capitalism in this country once and for all. He wants us to be no different than Belarus in the end.
 
apdst said:
There's just no getting through to you!...:rofl

Who brainwashed you?
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Saying nothing but "you don't get it" and then topping it with the "brainwashing" thing is among the lamest, limpest responses possible on a debate board.
 
Erod said:

Try doing that with your credit card. Make a cash withdrawal, give it to your buddy, take 5 percent annually of what he earns from investing it, and try to pay your credit card bill on time and in full.

The creditors will be calling in three months.
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But that's not what's happening, is it?

People are taking that money and ADDING value with it - by working and earning wages. Then they spend their money, which is used by other people to ADD VALUE through their work. And so on. It's not just money that is circulating, it's labor.
 
Erod said:
There are billions of dollars waiting on the sidelines to invest once the people who don't understand how money is made get out of the way.
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How exactly are they in the way? What is stopping people from borrowing that money? Banks are eager to loan, interest rates are low.

The reason they aren't borrowing it is because they have no customers because there's a recession.

Reduce taxes and government spending and make these vastly smarter private citizens feel better about the value of the dollar, and their money will pour into the market.
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Yeah, right.

People aren't spending because they don't have any dollars because they have no jobs. Or they fear losing their job.

It's not that hard. What Obama is doing will prolong this for many years, which is what he wants. He's trying to kill capitalism in this country once and for all. He wants us to be no different than Belarus in the end.
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Yeah yeah yeah. Socialism, etc.
 
misterman said:
People are taking that money and ADDING value with it - by working and earning wages. Then they spend their money, which is used by other people to ADD VALUE through their work. And so on. It's not just money that is circulating, it's labor.
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That's what cutting taxes does, too, except it actually works.

If the government is going to give the money away anyway, why not just cut taxes? Oh yeah, it's because the government wants control.
 
misterman said:
How exactly are they in the way? What is stopping people from borrowing that money? Banks are eager to loan, interest rates are low.

The reason they aren't borrowing it is because they have no customers because there's a recession.



Yeah, right.

People aren't spending because they don't have any dollars because they have no jobs. Or they fear losing their job.



Yeah yeah yeah. Socialism, etc.
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Banks will loan IF you have 30 percent to put down and perfect credit.

Lots and lots and lots of people have money to invest in the market. It's buried in their back yards right now because they're waiting for certainty that Obama won't make them pay for doing so.

Yep, your leader is further left than most socialist countries already are.
 
Erod said:
That's what cutting taxes does, too, except it actually works.

If the government is going to give the money away anyway, why not just cut taxes? Oh yeah, it's because the government wants control.
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No, it's because tax cuts go mostly to the wealthy, who are less likely to spend the money immediately. They will stash it away. We need spending, now.
 
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