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Thread: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Massive straw man.
    I never said anything is close enough. Some things are indeed close enough, but I never gave a number.
    You, however, said you have no tolerance at all. You're the one who thinks white is gray if it contains .00001% of black.
    No, you're saying a system with even the tiniest deviation from capitalism isn't capitalist. Which is why you're not getting anywhere, because you're trying to apply rules to language that just don't work.
    i don't know about less than a hundredth portion; but i'd say that over 50% makes it pretty solidly gray. And what we are talking about here are not tiny deviations; they are massive distortions of the marketplace.
    Last edited by cpwill; 01-04-10 at 09:29 PM.

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    i don't know about less than a hundredth portion; but i'd say that over 50% makes it pretty solidly gray. And what we are talking about here are not tiny deviations; they are massive distortions of the marketplace.
    Tell it to Phattonez, he's the one who insists that less than a hundredth portion is gray, not me. Sure, over 50% is gray.

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Tell it to Phattonez, he's the one who insists that less than a hundredth portion is gray, not me. Sure, over 50% is gray.
    Social security, welfare, federal reserve, Interstate Commerce Commission, FDIC, etc. How long before you say that this is a mixed economy, not a capitalist economy?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Social security, welfare, federal reserve, Interstate Commerce Commission, FDIC, etc. How long before you say that this is a mixed economy, not a capitalist economy?
    WTF is your point? Under your conditions capitalism never truly existed, and it never will. But when we experience great instances of economic growth, you will be the first one to chalk it up to capitalism, and when there is stagnation it will be because of "interference".

    The US is a mixed economy with very strong (if not the strongest in the world) capitalist/market underpinnings.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    WTF is your point? Under your conditions capitalism never truly existed, and it never will. But when we experience great instances of economic growth, you will be the first one to chalk it up to capitalism, and when there is stagnation it will be because of "interference".

    The US is a mixed economy with very strong (if not the strongest in the world) capitalist/market underpinnings.
    I'd say that last sentence is extremely subjective. Think of everything in your house, and think of how much of it has touched government at some point. Your house? You get tax breaks, plus the government owns some mortgage companies. Your water? You buy it from the government. Your electricity? You buy it from the government. Glassware? Government subsidizes the recycling of glass. Same with fertilizer.

    The fact remains, if we want to grow, then we have to strive toward capitalism. We are tending in the other direction.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Tell it to Phattonez, he's the one who insists that less than a hundredth portion is gray, not me. Sure, over 50% is gray.
    i think technically he might be correct, but with regards to a useful standard, can we at least dispense with the notion that the system we have currently is a "market / capitalist" system; in favor of accepting that what we have is a blended market / government system?
    Last edited by cpwill; 01-05-10 at 09:49 PM.

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Anyone have figures on government expenditure as a percentage of gdp? Such info can shed light on the hue of capitalism in America.

    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Anyone have figures on government expenditure as a percentage of gdp? Such info can shed light on the hue of capitalism in America.

    How about GDP - PPR. Anything leftover is government.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    How about GDP - PPR. Anything leftover is government.
    List of countries with the lowest amount of Government expenditure as a percentage of GDP.

    Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, Bangladesh, Cambodia, Bahamas, Singapore, Haiti.

    Don't have a source, but I know this off the top of my head for some strange reason

    BTW, I am still asking you what percentage of the US economy is "centrally planned" and waiting for a response.
    Last edited by Kushinator; 01-06-10 at 01:56 AM.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    List of countries with the lowest amount of Government expenditure as a percentage of GDP.

    Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, Bangladesh, Cambodia, Bahamas, Singapore, Haiti.

    Don't have a source, but I know this off the top of my head for some strange reason
    Strange, but worthless. It's just correlation. These countries also probably have other mitigating factors, such as corruption and war.

    BTW, I am still asking you what percentage of the US economy is "centrally planned" and waiting for a response.[/QUOTE]

    I tried searching for PPR quickly and couldn't find it. Do you know the answer?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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