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Thread: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Doesn't mean it's not inefficient. We can have a more efficient version of capitalism.
    , capitalism is capitalism. Something else is something else.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Efficiency of market systems depends on competition to weed out the weak. Financial panics lead to heuristic herd behavior, which is neither efficient nor logical, hence the term animal spirits. The difference between a correction and a meltdown essentially depends on the level of market participants who are driven on fear. We know that the upward trend of asset values is very much real.
    You keep talking about these "animal spirits," and it's like you're trying to imply that no one can succeed in these markets because everyone will just save whatever they can. But here's what we see: some companies still succeed; money is saved, and then consumer spending starts to rise again.

    So what is left in the correction? Well, people need to get jobs again, unemployment is far too high. What I've heard is causing the lingering unemployment is uncertainty. Changes to unemployment insurance and now health care are now really making the estimation of what a job will cost for a company very hard to predict. As such, they're hesitant to hire new workers.

    17 x the required reserve ratio does not equate to 170%. Given the current required reserve ratio being fractionally equivalent to 1/10: 1/10 x 17/1 = 17/10 which is 170%. 17x's = 1700% FWIW....
    Sorry, I was just going off of your post here where you said that it was 170%.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1058446934

    You still didn't respond to the point I was making. If there was a bank run right now, would the banks be able to pay everyone off and still keep some money for themselves? If not, then 17x some arbitrary amount is meaningless.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    , capitalism is capitalism. Something else is something else.
    Wrong.

    You can have more efficient capitalism, or less efficent capitalism. Both are still capitalism.

    Just like you can have a red hat or a blue hat, both are still hats.

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Wrong.

    You can have more efficient capitalism, or less efficent capitalism. Both are still capitalism.

    Just like you can have a red hat or a blue hat, both are still hats.
    If I put a cat on my head and call it a hat, it doesn't mean that it's a hat.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    If I put a cat on my head and call it a hat, it doesn't mean that it's a hat.
    But it is possible to have two different kinds of hats.

    Just as it is possible to have inefficient capitalism and efficient capitalism.

    Do us all a favor - define capitalism and tell us how you can tell when a system is or isn't capitalist. Then we'll explain this to you.

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    But it is possible to have two different kinds of hats.

    Just as it is possible to have inefficient capitalism and efficient capitalism.

    Do us all a favor - define capitalism and tell us how you can tell when a system is or isn't capitalist. Then we'll explain this to you.
    Capitalism is an economic system where the means of production are entirely left into private hands. People don't have to worry about government intervention except for a legal system that ensures that rights are not violated. Everything then is produced by private citizens without any government interference.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Capitalism is an economic system where the means of production are entirely left into private hands. People don't have to worry about government intervention except for a legal system that ensures that rights are not violated. Everything then is produced by private citizens without any government interference.
    So if you have a system where 0.1% of the means of production is in public hands, it's not a capitalist system?

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    So if you have a system where 0.1% of the means of production is in public hands, it's not a capitalist system?
    Yes, otherwise it is a mixed economy.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Yes, otherwise it is a mixed economy.
    Ah, okay. So are there any capitalist countries in the world, at all?

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Ah, okay. So are there any capitalist countries in the world, at all?
    Nope. But some are closer than others.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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