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Thread: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Newsflash: the government can't do that...
    Government spending for WWII is credited for helping bring us out of the Big Depression. This time it appears to have prevented another big depression.
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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Government spending for WWII is credited for helping bring us out of the Big Depression. This time it appears to have prevented another big depression.
    We're not in one right now?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Speaking from the unemployed state of Michigan, where the last economic growth was in 1997, yep, it is a depression!

    Another note - the point was made that the ratio for banks funds to reserve rate is currently 17:1. That means banks are holding onto 17 times the required funds by law. Do you know where those funds are held that are not out on loan? Federal Reserve Notes - i.e. loaned to the government, where they earn interest. So the money is currently on loan to the government rather than the private sector. Without this money on loan to the government, the government would not be able to raise the funds to spend on the stimulus. So the money is flowing from the private sector to the government sector because the banks are being actively encouraged by the rate on the Fed Notes over the risk of making loans.

    Also remember that an estimated 25% or so of the existing mortgages still outstanding are considered 'at risk'. If the banks do not hold sufficient reserves to handle when these loans go bad, then we are right back where we were in the fall of 2008. So the FED is encouraging the build up of reserves.

    After all is said and done, the government is soaking up capital from the system to be spent in the manner that the government wishes rather than the private sector directing the investment. Since some of this is payments of $6 Million to the PR firm that ran Hillary Clinton's 2008 presidential campaign to save all of 3 jobs, among other abuses, the 'stimulus' is not really stimulating the economy but rather paying off supporters. Not very efficient now is it? Oh, and what type of infrastructure for the benefit of the US is that?

    Let's also look at the distribution of the stimulus spending. My company applied for a portion to help build high speed internet access for the thumb of Michigan - supplying a high speed internet option to over 1 million people who currently do not have an option short of satellite - at a cost less than one third the cost of satellite. Other companies applied for the same program in Michigan that could have covered the entire state with cheap high speed internet. Michigan, where the growth has been missing for over 10 years and leading the US in unemployment figures, no matter how you calculate it. How much of that stimulus money has reached Michigan? Less than $3 Million over the entire economy. Our project saw no awards in Michigan. There were only four states that got awards in our category: California, Illinois, New York, and Rhode Island. Yep, good stimulus there.

    If we actually were spending the stimulus money on infrastructure, I would not be as anti-stimulus as I am. But the stimulus money is being gifted to the Democratic supporters in obscene amounts that are not 'trickling down' or 'trickling up' or anything other than lining the pockets of many rich Democrats at the expense of everyone else in the US.

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Government spending for WWII is credited for helping bring us out of the Big Depression. This time it appears to have prevented another big depression.
    Wow! Purdy much kills the Libbos notion that the two wars we're in right now helped cause the recession...
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Government spending for WWII is credited for helping bring us out of the Big Depression. This time it appears to have prevented another big depression.
    Exactly! They always say "it was WWII, not the New Deal," as if WWII wasn't about government spending too.

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Wow! Purdy much kills the Libbos notion that the two wars we're in right now helped cause the recession...
    Who said that?

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I know there's going to be a lot of disagreement on where a recession starts, so let's just start somewhere where we can all agree: banks are not lending money.
    Well, I don't even agree with how you state that. Banks aren't lending money, but is it because they aren't willing to, or nobody is borrowing?

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by carlkay58 View Post
    Ooophh. What a discussion. Essentially we have the Keynisian school represented by Misterman and Goldenboy insisting that any spending is good - when the private sector does not then the government must pick up the slack. The Austrian school then chimes back that the government picking up the slack causes greater government debt which must come out of the economy in the form of taxes sooner or later and this will decrease economic growth in the future. The Keynisians retort that later is better than now.
    Don't sell Keynes short - later is better than now because we're in a deep crisis now. Later, when times are really good, we can afford to pay more in taxes and risk slowing the economy down a bit, and we might actually want to do that to prevent inflation.

    But like I said, there's a big political problem with Keynesianism, because it's easy to get a stimulus in bad times but hard politically to raise taxes and cut spending later in good times.

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    I wonder if the last great depression started out like this.
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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Exactly! They always say "it was WWII, not the New Deal," as if WWII wasn't about government spending too.
    I never said that WWII ended the Depression.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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