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Thread: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

  1. #191
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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    [quote=misterman;1058414052]
    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Stimulus isn't about creating wealth.

    Sure it is.



    Yes.



    They're spending money.

    Maybe someone else will put some effort into an answer.
    They're spending our money. All they're doing is giving it back to us, then turning around and taking more. How is that creating wealth?
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    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Because the only source of revenue has, is taxes. The governmen doesn't make money. Government can only collect taxes. You can create wealth with tax money. All you're doing is re-cycling money.
    Ah, I see what you mean.

    You're dismissing the multiplier effect. The money spent is spent again, and again, with value added by labor along the way. That creates wealth. It gets the economy back to sustaining itself.

    You're also confusing wealth with income, I think.

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    [quote=apdst;1058414063]
    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post

    They're spending our money. All they're doing is giving it back to us, then turning around and taking more. How is that creating wealth?
    They aren't GIVING it back to you. They are putting people to work. Those people take the money and spend it, putting more people to work, etc. It's not just a giveaway. If the government were just sending people checks for doing nothing, you'd be right. But that's not what's happening.

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Ah, I see what you mean.

    You're dismissing the multiplier effect. The money spent is spent again, and again, with value added by labor along the way. That creates wealth. It gets the economy back to sustaining itself.

    You're also confusing wealth with income, I think.
    The multiplier effect won't work in this environment.

    And, wealth and income are the same thing. If I made $20,000 last year and I make $30,000 this year, wealth has been created. Only the private sector can do that. The government has never caused that effect for a private citizen.

    All you want to do is re-cycle money. Why can't you see that? It's been explained to you in detail by several different people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    They're spending our money. All they're doing is giving it back to us, then turning around and taking more. How is that creating wealth?
    Reread what I wrote, I agree with you.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    [quote=misterman;1058414068]
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post

    They aren't GIVING it back to you. They are putting people to work. Those people take the money and spend it, putting more people to work, etc. It's not just a giveaway. If the government were just sending people checks for doing nothing, you'd be right. But that's not what's happening.
    LOL...The government cannot put money in everyone's pocket. The government doesn't have that much money. The private sector is going to have to fill the void that government can't. Hence, creating wealth. Creating a few temporary lower end jobs isn't creating wealth. Those workers aren't going to rush out and buy a house, or a car, or a boat, or a motorcycle. They're only going to buy the neccessities. Only buying the neccessities isn't going to cause growth in the private sector. Why is this so hard for you grasp?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The multiplier effect won't work in this environment.
    Why not? Be specific please.

    And, wealth and income are the same thing. If I made $20,000 last year and I make $30,000 this year, wealth has been created.
    Whoa, hold on. You think an INCREASE in income is wealth? If I make the same salary as last year, no wealth has been created? You're confused.

    BTW, I was talking about income for the government. That's irrelevant to whether the government creates wealth. Like I said, a dollar is a dollar.

    Maybe you should define what you think wealth, and wealth creation, is before we continue.

    Only the private sector can do that. The government has never caused that effect for a private citizen.
    Really? Go tell that to the people with stimulus jobs. Tell it to the contractors building roads and stuff. Then tell it to those who supply them, and so son.

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    [quote=apdst;1058414092]
    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post

    LOL...The government cannot put money in everyone's pocket. The government doesn't have that much money. The private sector is going to have to fill the void that government can't. Hence, creating wealth.
    Exactly.

    The government isn't putting money in everyone's pocket, and I never said it needed to.

    Creating a few temporary lower end jobs isn't creating wealth. Those workers aren't going to rush out and buy a house, or a car, or a boat, or a motorcycle. They're only going to buy the neccessities. Only buying the neccessities isn't going to cause growth in the private sector. Why is this so hard for you grasp?
    Necessities don't matter? They aren't part of the economy?

    Did it occur to you that the people SELLING the necessities will go buy cars and boats? And then the people SELLING the cars and boats will go buy more stuff? And so on?

    Multiplier effect. Basic economics.

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Why not? Be specific please.
    Because government doesn't know what we want as well as we do, so it won't be as efficient as we would be with our own money.

    Really? Go tell that to the people with stimulus jobs. Tell it to the contractors building roads and stuff. Then tell it to those who supply them, and so son.
    I'd probably like a guy who stole from a millionaire and give me $50, but it doesn't mean the robber is a good person or did a good thing.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: LA Times: Obama stimulus spending: $246,436 per new job

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Why not? Be specific please.
    The multiplier effect only works when there's a surplus of government cash and a positive economic environment.



    Whoa, hold on. You think an INCREASE in income is wealth? If I make the same salary as last year, no wealth has been created? You're confused.
    It's called, "growth".

    BTW, I was talking about income for the government. That's irrelevant to whether the government creates wealth. Like I said, a dollar is a dollar.
    LOL...the government gets it's income from he private sector!


    Really? Go tell that to the people with stimulus jobs. Tell it to the contractors building roads and stuff. Then tell it to those who supply them, and so son.

    I know boo-coo construction workers. I'm a part of the blue-collar class and I can tell you that none of them are jumping for joy. Glad to have a job? Sure they are, but they're not acting like they're entering a new golden age.

    You can't brag about thing while the unemployment rate is still above 10% and rising. It's obvious that something ain't working!..
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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