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Thread: Movement under way in California to ban divorce

  1. #31
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    Re: Movement under way in California to ban divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Banning divorce would be unconstitutional.

    How so?

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    Re: Movement under way in California to ban divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post

    How so?
    Marriage is a contract. Does the government have the authority to dictate the terms of a contract made between to two consenting individuals?

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    Re: Movement under way in California to ban divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Given your posts, it's not a surprise that you do not reconize a reasonable argument, even when it whacks you upside the head.
    You do realize you are implicitly arguing that heterosexual sham/publicity marriages that last for mere days do less damage to the sanctity of marriage then gays getting married and staying married for years?

    If people actually give a **** about the "sanctity of marriage" they'd ban divorce.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Movement under way in California to ban divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I woud have relaized it if I supposed the argument againast gay marriage and the half-centruy decline of tradtitional marriage were significantly related, and assumed that your "this leaves two choices' position was not a false dichotomy.

    I doubt many, if any, opponents of same-sex marriage base their position on the -current and past- decline of marriage, as this decline had been going on for some time prior to the pop-culture advent of the same-sex marriage topic. It is very likely that this decline -is- related to changes in societal conceptulaization of reproductive rights, but to significantly attach the same-sex marriage argument in this regard is unsupportable.

    That is, the hippies didnt decide it was OK to screw everyone they could because they were swayed by the 'you dont have to be able to have kids to get married' argument.

    So, I disagree with your position.
    Apparently you don't understand my position if that is your take. My argument is that the people who push forth the anti same sex marriage agenda have distracted the public from what really has caused the decline of traditional marriage. By doing so, they continually ensure its decline in this country. There is no evidence to support the idea that same sex marriage contributes to the decline of traditional marriage, and in fact the contrary seems true since Massachusetts still holds the lowest rate of divorce. Millions of dollars that could have been used to push through covenant marriage legislation and family incentives which would have had a real impact on the factors which evidence shows actually cause the decline of traditional marriage, has been systematically wasted on the anti same sex marriage agenda which demographically is destined to fail anyways. As such, there is more evidence to indicate that being against same sex marriage is more harmful to traditional marriage than being a supporter of it.

    I have know idea what the hell you are trying to imply with idiotic remarks about hippies. I'm talking about the here and now. But it doesn't matter if you refuse to believe, since the reality is that traditional marriage is on its way out regardless of whether or not you support same sex marriage because same sex marriage simply has nothing to do with traditional marriage or its decline. If you can't see that much, then I guess it's your problem.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 12-01-09 at 10:47 PM.

  5. #35
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    Re: Movement under way in California to ban divorce

    One of the reasons of the decline of marriage is the Great Society and other welfare programs replaced the need of women having either to depend on a spouse for income (and to some extent that of men also) or to have to look for employment quickly after a divorce.

    Another is the relaxing or at least the increase of public acceptance of open sexual promiscuity encouraged couples to break up for greener pastures.

    Anyway, all of this is just a ploy of some of the people who support GM to show up the opponents. I oppose a flat ban on divorce and believe that childless divorces should be treated differently than those with children.
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    Re: Movement under way in California to ban divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    One of the reasons of the decline of marriage is the Great Society and other welfare programs replaced the need of women having either to depend on a spouse for income (and to some extent that of men also) or to have to look for employment quickly after a divorce.

    Another is the relaxing or at least the increase of public acceptance of open sexual promiscuity encouraged couples to break up for greener pastures.

    Anyway, all of this is just a ploy of some of the people who support GM to show up the opponents. I oppose a flat ban on divorce and believe that childless divorces should be treated differently than those with children.
    Yeah, I mentioned the liberalization of women.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-an...lculation.html

    lThe Dutch academics that the Heritage Foundation cite make the argument that the gay movement's political campaign, which aimed to separate child procreation/rearing from the institution of marriage, was likely a main contributor to this trend that followed throughout Europe.

    However, this ignored two vital liberalizations. The introduction of no fault divorce and the influx of women leaving home to work.

    So this leaves two possibilities open...

    1. The introduction of no fault divorce and the influx of women leaving work in the 60s and 70s has over time lead to the degradation of traditional marriage to the point that attitudes now no longer consider procreation as a fundamental element of marriage and that has lead to attitudes favorable to allowing gay marriage.
    2. The political campaigns in the 80s for gay marriage have lead to attitudes that procreation is not a fundamental element to marriage, which in turn has lead to the degradation of traditional marriage.

    The former seems more likely to me, but conservatives are leaning more towards blaming gay marriage for the decline of traditional marriage. In addition to that, rather than focus on how no fault divorce and women leaving home to work is affecting heterosexual marriages, groups like the National Organization for marriage have turned the national focus to how the "homosexual agenda" is out to undermine religious liberties and indoctrinate and recruit children in schools. By taking this rather prejudiced route, NOM may have effectively cemented the decline of traditional marriage by distracting people from the true factors that are leading to its decline.
    How exactly is this a "ploy"?

    I'm sorry, but anti GM people make no sense. If protecting traditional marriage were truly the point of their position, then they are undermining it every step of the way. That is simply what the evidence indicates. I'm open to evidence that indicates otherwise.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 12-02-09 at 12:35 AM.

  7. #37
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    Re: Movement under way in California to ban divorce

    GOOBIEMAN posted(
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jackboot View Post
    The government should not be involved in marriage, period. Now if you want to enter in to a legal contract, then so be it, but I am of the mind that two adults can handle their own affairs, and should.
    Its really not that easy. If the state did not define the interaction between the law and the rights of the spouses -- and make sure those rights are protected -- the resuling mess would be, well, huge.

    Imagine, the state playing no role in divorce.)

    The State Government is involved in education and look at the mess they have made of that, the RESULING mess is indeed HUGE.

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    Re: Movement under way in California to ban divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Marriage is a contract. Does the government have the authority to dictate the terms of a contract made between to two consenting individuals?
    Uh, you're missing a party there. Marriage is a contract made between two consenting, unrelated adults of age with sufficient mental capacity and the state. So yes, the current form of marriage does allow the state to dictate the terms of the contract, at least going forward. Retroactive application to current marriage contracts is likely not constitutional without new laws dictating just that.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Movement under way in California to ban divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    Pretty funny stunt, it will be even more funny if it actually makes the ballot.

    Baylor University || The Lariat Online || News
    This only demonstrates ignorance on the pro-gm side.

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    Re: Movement under way in California to ban divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    This would certainly expose the hypocrisy of those who say they voted in favor of Prop 8 to "protect the sanctity of marriage".
    Divorce can support the sanctity of marriage also.

    Ever prune a tree? Cut away the dead and dying twigs?

    Abusive marriages, for example, should end in divorce before they end in murder.

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