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Thread: US Catholic Church now playing political hardball, critics say

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    US Catholic Church now playing political hardball, critics say

    But church officials argue that D.C. city council's decision to reject an amendment that would have allowed people to refuse services to same-sex couples on religious grounds amounts to ignoring freedom of religion.
    Im a supporter of gay marriage but killing this provision was a mistake. This is why Vermont got it right in regards to the debate. People must realize that the church is still a private organization. It has the legal right under private property rights to pick and choose who they want in their organization. The Church is right in their argument of killing this safeguard ignores the 1st Amendment. This is defiantly not the way to go.

    US Catholic Church now playing political hardball, critics say | Raw Story
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    Re: US Catholic Church now playing political hardball, critics say

    There is nothing in the Constitution saying one word about separation of Church and State.
    The first Amendment says; Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
    The free exercise means to me they have the right to oppose any law of proposed law the is in conflict with that religions moral beliefs.
    The IRS has misinterpreted the first Amendment as has millions including the Supreme court to include separation of church and state.

    The Catholic Church as other Churches have an obligation on religious and moral grounds to oppose the barbaric and inhuman practice of murdering the unborn for the convenience of irresponsible and or immoral women.
    What is very laughable to me is that people claim to be Christians say abortion is just fine, when they know it goes against every moral and Church teaching.
    Last edited by Councilman; 11-15-09 at 05:15 PM.

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    Re: US Catholic Church now playing political hardball, critics say

    I don't quite understand.

    Why does the Catholic Church (or any religious organization) have to marry anyone it does not wish to?

    Now, a religious organization that is taking tax benefits for using private land as public is another story. But on private church property that is not being used as a public good, they have every right to deny marriage ceremonies to anyone they golly well feel like independent of any new laws. Don't like interracial marriages? Don't have to do them. Don't like Asians/Blacks/Hispanics/Canadians/French/English/Irish/Russians/Slavs/Native Americans/Muslims/Protestants/Jews/Druze/Yezidi/Mexican/Spanish/Brazilian don't have to marry them.
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    Re: US Catholic Church now playing political hardball, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    Im a supporter of gay marriage but killing this provision was a mistake. This is why Vermont got it right in regards to the debate. People must realize that the church is still a private organization. It has the legal right under private property rights to pick and choose who they want in their organization. The Church is right in their argument of killing this safeguard ignores the 1st Amendment. This is defiantly not the way to go.

    US Catholic Church now playing political hardball, critics say | Raw Story
    What if my religion requires me not to offer service to non-whites? A regular business would be penalized for that, but you seem to think a "religious" business deserves special status.

    Sorry I'm glad they did this. The funny part is that the Catholic Church in DC stated that it will deny services to all people if they are legally required not to discriminate by sexual preference. So that says a lot about their desire to "help the poor and needy through the love of Christ" doesn't it?

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    Re: US Catholic Church now playing political hardball, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    There is nothing in the Constitution saying one word about separation of Church and State.

    Congress shall not establish a religion.
    You just posted where it refers to separation of church and state.

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    The free exercise means to me they have the right to oppose any law of proposed law the is in conflict with that religions moral beliefs.
    They have the right to express their opinions, just like I have the right to yell "Bush is a terrorist and should be tried" or "Assassinate Obama".

    That doesn't mean normal people are required to give loonies the time of day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    The IRS has misinterpreted the first Amendment as has millions including the Supreme court to include separation of church and state.
    The religious right has misinterpreted the 1st Amendment as has millions including the Supreme court to not include separation of church and state.

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    The Catholic Church as other Churches have an obligation on religious and moral grounds to oppose the barbaric and inhuman practice of murdering the unborn for the convenience of irresponsible and or immoral women.
    Modern abortion was invented by the Catholic Church, so I don't know what their problem with it is. Most abortions in the US and Europe are done by Christians also (the percentage of Muslims, nonreligious, Jews, etc who have abortions is far, far less than the Christian percentage).


    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    What is very laughable to me is that people claim to be Christians say abortion is just fine,
    An embryo is not a human life by scientific definition until after the 1st Trimester. After the 2nd Trimester, abortion should not be legal as convenience (only in life-threatening emergencies - which make up for the majority of late-term abortions). It looks like some Christians are just smarter than the ones who jump on the anti-science bandwagon.


    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    when they know it goes against every moral and Church teaching.
    How so?

    "...do not spare them, put to death men, women, children, infants..." (1 Samuel 15:3)

    "Any child which strikes his mother or father shall be put do death." (Old Law)
    Last edited by Toothpicvic; 11-15-09 at 05:33 PM.

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    Re: US Catholic Church now playing political hardball, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by Toothpicvic View Post
    What if my religion requires me not to offer service to non-whites? A regular business would be penalized for that, but you seem to think a "religious" business deserves special status.
    As a hispanic Im in favor of getting rid of all discrimination laws, like hate crimes its nothing but thought control and give bigots, racists and others a platform to bitch and whine. People should have the right to decide what goes on their private properties.
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