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Thread: Interview with the President: Jail Time for Those without Health Care Insurance?

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    Interview with the President: Jail Time for Those without Health Care Insurance?

    Interview with the President: Jail Time for Those without Health Care Insurance? - Political Punch

    From Sunlen Miller:

    During an exclusive interview with ABC News’ Jake Tapper today, President Obama said that penalties are appropriate for people who try to “free ride” the health care system but stopped short of endorsing the threat of jail time for those who refuse to pay a fine for not having insurance.

    “What I think is appropriate is that in the same way that everybody has to get auto insurance and if you don't, you're subject to some penalty, that in this situation, if you have the ability to buy insurance, it's affordable and you choose not to do so, forcing you and me and everybody else to subsidize you, you know, there's a thousand dollar hidden tax that families all across America are -- are burdened by because of the fact that people don't have health insurance, you know, there's nothing wrong with a penalty.”

    Under the House bill those who can afford to buy insurance and don’t’ pay a fine. If the refuse to pay that fine there’s a threat – as with a lot of tax fines – of jail time. The Senate removed that provision in the Senate Finance Committee.

    Mr. Obama said penalties have to be high enough for people to not game the system, but it’s also important to not be “so punitive” that people who are having a hard time find themselves suddenly worse off, thus why hardship exemptions have been built in the legislation.
    I like the part that reads: "Obama Said: that penalties are appropriate for people who try to “free ride” the health care system but stopped short of endorsing the threat of jail time for those who refuse to pay a fine for not having insurance."
    Is there anyone who believe he wouldn't be tripping all over himself to get to sign this crazy Bill.
    I am getting tied of pointing out that this legislation is not what it needed and that any person who has ever run a successful business can come up with much better solutions at a mere fraction of the cost of this monstrosity.
    I beg you to demand a more reasonable approach to Health care and Insurance. It makes no sense to give up our Liberties to help the 12 to 20 million who have no health care. Hell I have solutions to the high cost and insurance and it's not that hard to do if we address the questions and not add a bunch of junk that is not related to the initial issues and only serves special interests and drives the cost up needlessly.

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    Re: Interview with the President: Jail Time for Those without Health Care Insurance?

    I always find it counterintuitive for people who cannot afford something -- are then fined. How exactly does that work again? And then when one cannot pay the fine, they're threatened with jail. How about not forcing people to do something they don't want to do? That seems reasonable...

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    Re: Interview with the President: Jail Time for Those without Health Care Insurance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I always find it counterintuitive for people who cannot afford something -- are then fined. How exactly does that work again? And then when one cannot pay the fine, they're threatened with jail. How about not forcing people to do something they don't want to do? That seems reasonable...
    These clowns are out of control. It's all good, they'll be gone soon.
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    Re: Interview with the President: Jail Time for Those without Health Care Insurance?

    So question...

    If you don't own or drive a car, do you have to buy Auto-Insurance?

    To my knowledge, you don't.

    With that being the case, this is NOT the same thing. Everyone is not FORCED to buy a auto-insurance. It is your CHOICE. If you don't you can not operate a vehicle on the state's property (IE roads), but you are not forced to do it by some kind of government direct punishment if you don't buy it. Where as with health insurance you do not have that option, its either pay for it or be penalized for it.

    Those are not the same things.

    I may not be able to have a car, but I could try and get a job in an area that has public transportation. I can carpool. I can ride with a spouse or friends. I could bike. I could walk. All are options without the government directly and distinctly penalizing me for not having insurance.

    If I don't buy health insurance I get a huge direct monetary fine and if I don't pay it naturally it leads to jail time?

    Those are not the same circumstances.

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    Re: Interview with the President: Jail Time for Those without Health Care Insurance?

    This has been raised before, and so, I will ask again:

    How will the government know if you do not have health insurance?
    Will the people that do not have health insurance be indicted bya federal grand jury, sent to trial in a federal court and, if convicted, then fined?

    If not, then what is the mechanism for these fines? On what basis are they levied?

    Oh -- a civil penalty you say?

    Civil penalties are levied as a means to gain restitution for the costs incurred by a state resulting from someone's 'wrongful' actions.

    What "cost' does the state incurr for someone that does not have insirance (the 'wrongful action'), but has not had any health care costs paid by the state? If a person's actions have resulted in no cost to the state, on what basis then is the civil-penalty fine levied?

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    Re: Interview with the President: Jail Time for Those without Health Care Insurance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This has been raised before, and so, I will ask again:

    How will the government know if you do not have health insurance?
    My understanding is it is tracked via the IRS via penalty's required to be paid. Internal Revenue Code (IRC) that would be modified by the terms of the new law. For example, Section 6662(a) would assess a penalty of 20% of the amount of the underpayment of the tax. Section 6663 of the IRC would raise the penalty to 75% if the government identifies an attempt to avoid paying the tax. Underpayment results in a fine of the $5,000.00. Once those penalty's are not paid, section 7203 in the House bill identifies two severities the first:

    “Misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment for up to one year.” Then if still no compliance, $250,000 and/or five years in jail.

    It's all right there in the bill.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Will the people that do not have health insurance be indicted bya federal grand jury, sent to trial in a federal court and, if convicted, then fined?
    It's not clear - however one can assume that a misdemeanor requires charges to be filed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    If not, then what is the mechanism for these fines? On what basis are they levied?

    Oh -- a civil penalty you say?

    Civil penalties are levied as a means to gain restitution for the costs incurred by a state resulting from someone's 'wrongful' actions.

    What "cost' does the state incurr for someone that does not have insirance (the 'wrongful action'), but has not had any health care costs paid by the state? If a person's actions have resulted in no cost to the state, on what basis then is the civil-penalty fine levied?
    The basis is "the government told you to do something and you did not". There's no constitutional backing to such an action and I'm waiting with baited breath for it to be challenged, if this PoS get's passed with that section intact.

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    Re: Interview with the President: Jail Time for Those without Health Care Insurance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    My understanding is it is tracked via the IRS via penalty's required to be paid. Internal Revenue Code (IRC) that would be modified by the terms of the new law. For example, Section 6662(a) would assess a penalty of 20% of the amount of the underpayment of the tax. Section 6663 of the IRC would raise the penalty to 75% if the government identifies an attempt to avoid paying the tax. Underpayment results in a fine of the $5,000.00.
    I'm confused -- what tax?

    It's not clear - however one can assume that a misdemeanor requires charges to be filed.
    I would assume so -- but it seems you're discussing the payment of a tax, not buying health insurance.


    The basis is "the government told you to do something and you did not".
    Indeed. You KNOW how far that would fly if the circumstance was different.

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    Re: Interview with the President: Jail Time for Those without Health Care Insurance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    Interview with the President: Jail Time for Those without Health Care Insurance? - Political Punch



    I like the part that reads: "Obama Said: that penalties are appropriate for people who try to “free ride” the health care system but stopped short of endorsing the threat of jail time for those who refuse to pay a fine for not having insurance."
    Is there anyone who believe he wouldn't be tripping all over himself to get to sign this crazy Bill.
    I am getting tied of pointing out that this legislation is not what it needed and that any person who has ever run a successful business can come up with much better solutions at a mere fraction of the cost of this monstrosity.
    I beg you to demand a more reasonable approach to Health care and Insurance. It makes no sense to give up our Liberties to help the 12 to 20 million who have no health care. Hell I have solutions to the high cost and insurance and it's not that hard to do if we address the questions and not add a bunch of junk that is not related to the initial issues and only serves special interests and drives the cost up needlessly.
    It's really simple, you repeal the free ride laws, like free emergency care.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Interview with the President: Jail Time for Those without Health Care Insurance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I'm confused -- what tax?


    I would assume so -- but it seems you're discussing the payment of a tax, not buying health insurance.



    Indeed. You KNOW how far that would fly if the circumstance was different.
    If you don't voluntarily get health care, you are taxed. If you don't pay the tax, the IRS fines you. If you don't pay the fines, you go to jail.

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    Re: Interview with the President: Jail Time for Those without Health Care Insurance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    If you don't voluntarily get health care, you are taxed. If you don't pay the tax, the IRS fines you. If you don't pay the fines, you go to jail.
    So if you do not have health insurance, you dont actually pay a fine, you have your taxes raised.

    That makes sense -- raise taxes on those that cannot afford health care.

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