snopes.com: Snuff Films
I've also seen pedophiles flat out claim that child pornography doesn't exist, which strikes me as silly, all the more considering how cheap and common cams are these days. However, people in general should be able to review the evidence for themselves, and not have to rely on "authorities" who just a few years ago wanted us to believe that there were Satanic Ritual Abuse rings all over the place.
Also, I'm referring above to pornography involving actual prepubescents. Yet CP under the current legal definition would include productions involving consenting teenagers who happen to be under the current age of majority. "Authorities" will often play up the preteen porn when in fact it may well be a tiny percentage of the total. Why would they do that? Because they want more recognition and more money for their programs. Dishonest legislators want to be able to push through bills and pork that supposedly protect the children. Such "crusaders for teh children" have conflicts of interest.
Repression and censorship have an awful track record when it comes to problem solving. Accountability goes hand in hand with transparency. Free debate requires equal access to knowledge pertinent to the debate. When select groups legally monopolize access to certain knowledge this contributes to the further concentration of power in the hands of very few people. At the same time, any "black market" that might exist will continue to grow, cloaked in the shadows of taboo from public scrutiny. Exploiters of moral panic are expert at using this situation to their advantage.
If Korimyr thinks Max Hardcore is nasty or disturbing he should also check out some of the female-created yaoi, manga, and other pornographic cartoons out there.
You're touching upon a key problem with so much of the anti-porn argumentation out there: generally, porn doesn't create desires nearly so much as it reflects desires that were already there in the first place. And not merely in the few, but in the many.
Aside from that nasty little bit of unwholesomeness, they are called "romance" novels for good reason-- they're based in the romantic notion that brutes can be civilized into properly attentive and caring partners. This may not be the greatest idea in the world, but at least what it is glamorizing is the endstate where the male romantic interest has a proper appreciation for the heroine.
So, just how isn't the woman reading these novels and masturbating to the scenes where the man brutalizes the heroine NOT "identifying" with the rapist and building an "emotional connection" between rape and getting off? Because the absolute sexiest scenes are the rape ones. Not the end where they "fall in love" and she just ignores all the brutality he did to her. The masturbatory scenes are not in the end of the book.
You're just making excuses now for your inconsistencies. You say "hopefully" she isn't building these so-called "emotional connections". But can we really afford to take that chance? What if... *gasp*... she IS? Should she really be allowed to do that? Should she really be allowed to reach sexual pleasure that way?
wait wait wait... I thought it was "degrading" and "humiliating" and setting some bad example. So now the issue is the men and women portraying the Doms in these porn movies? Not the men and women being degraded, but the ones doing the "degradation" to them?I'd say there's an important psychological difference between being pressured to play the attacker and being pressured to play the victim, so even if the fantasy does develop into a fetish, there's less harm done.
As Sov already said... these things do not create desires. They are an expression of desires that already exist for 10s of millions of people.
That's a matter of opinion.So, just how isn't the woman reading these novels and masturbating to the scenes where the man brutalizes the heroine NOT "identifying" with the rapist and building an "emotional connection" between rape and getting off? Because the absolute sexiest scenes are the rape ones.
I find nothing "sexy" about rape whatsoever.
It's a complete turn-off to me; in fact, it's difficult for me to even read about. It's one of the rare things that makes me feel squeamish and uncomfortable.
I think, as a woman, I identify too much with the victims, and their victimization makes me feel both angry and somehow ashamed (even though there's no reason for them to feel ashamed- it's not their fault, obviously- and no reason for me to feel ashamed on their behalf; I realize this, but it's not something I have any control over).
I can understand how/ why a rape survivor would find rape scenes a turn-on. It is probably quite healthy and empowering; a sort of reclamation.
Last edited by 1069; 11-24-09 at 12:11 AM.
I'm not going to quote Zyph's super long post, but I agree with it 100%.
I don't think Max Hardcore should be jailed or the material banned because I'm not at all comfortable with government imposing subjective moral values on us, especially at the cost of our freedom of expression.
On the other hand, let's not pretend that all porn is equal and its all a beautiful expression of human sexuality. There is some pretty twisted stuff out there and there is nothing wrong with society attaching stigmas to some things as an effort to discourage it, without relying on the heavy hand of government to outright ban it.
Slipping into madness is good for the sake of comparison - Unknown.