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Thread: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity charges

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Sov View Post
    So is homicide and footage of it isn't automatically contraband.
    Ahh... but they are contraband if the murder was perpetrated for the purposes of the video. They have a name for those, and they ARE illegal.

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Ahh... but they are contraband if the murder was perpetrated for the purposes of the video. They have a name for those, and they ARE illegal.
    Sniff films? Snopes actually claims they don't exist.

    snopes.com: Snuff Films

    I've also seen pedophiles flat out claim that child pornography doesn't exist, which strikes me as silly, all the more considering how cheap and common cams are these days. However, people in general should be able to review the evidence for themselves, and not have to rely on "authorities" who just a few years ago wanted us to believe that there were Satanic Ritual Abuse rings all over the place.

    Also, I'm referring above to pornography involving actual prepubescents. Yet CP under the current legal definition would include productions involving consenting teenagers who happen to be under the current age of majority. "Authorities" will often play up the preteen porn when in fact it may well be a tiny percentage of the total. Why would they do that? Because they want more recognition and more money for their programs. Dishonest legislators want to be able to push through bills and pork that supposedly protect the children. Such "crusaders for teh children" have conflicts of interest.

    Repression and censorship have an awful track record when it comes to problem solving. Accountability goes hand in hand with transparency. Free debate requires equal access to knowledge pertinent to the debate. When select groups legally monopolize access to certain knowledge this contributes to the further concentration of power in the hands of very few people. At the same time, any "black market" that might exist will continue to grow, cloaked in the shadows of taboo from public scrutiny. Exploiters of moral panic are expert at using this situation to their advantage.
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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    You know, after thinking about... Korimyr, do you feel the same about romance novels that millions of women enjoy worldwide? They're chocked full of rape. And they're books usually written BY women, FOR women. Most women consider them erotica. Should they be banned as well?
    Hmm. Good point. And what about erotic fanfic? Do "mpreg" stories about forcing men to get pregnant and sodomized by giant octopuses present a healthy way of treating our fellow human beings?

    If Korimyr thinks Max Hardcore is nasty or disturbing he should also check out some of the female-created yaoi, manga, and other pornographic cartoons out there.

    You're touching upon a key problem with so much of the anti-porn argumentation out there: generally, porn doesn't create desires nearly so much as it reflects desires that were already there in the first place. And not merely in the few, but in the many.
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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Building a completely rational society is the work of political philosophers for pedagogical purposes, and nothing more. I don't give up on justice or some liberty, but unless we are arguing over misunderstandings (which I'm still hoping for), I'm finding your continued offense towards me seriously naive and slightly irritating.
    Offense? Oh come on. I call for a more rational society (an ideal I think our country was founded on, by rationalists who believed in it) and that's offense? It's a debate board, tough it out. I find it an offense to be told I can't handle watching a particular movie like a child (by censors, not you).

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Sov View Post
    I'll check it out. That will actually be true for someone who stops at just watching and never has any "real" (social) sex in his/her life.

    Regarding sex-positivity, in "The Necessary Revolution: Sex-Positive Feminism in the Post-Barnard Era," Carol Queen writes:

    It’s the cultural philosophy that understands sexuality as a potentially positive force in one’s life, and it can, of course, be contrasted with sex-negativity, which sees sex as problematic, disruptive, dangerous. Sex-positivity allows for and in fact celebrates sexual diversity, differing desires and relationships structures, and individual choices based on consent.
    Thanks. Interesting stuff.

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    You know, after thinking about... Korimyr, do you feel the same about romance novels that millions of women enjoy worldwide? They're chocked full of rape. And they're books usually written BY women, FOR women. Most women consider them erotica. Should they be banned as well?
    I don't think it's necessary. I may not like the way these novels handle rape-- especially the idea that decent and otherwise worthy men will engage in it-- but a woman who reads these novels isn't identifying with the rapist and hopefully isn't building an emotional connection between being abused and getting off. I'd say there's an important psychological difference between being pressured to play the attacker and being pressured to play the victim, so even if the fantasy does develop into a fetish, there's less harm done.

    Aside from that nasty little bit of unwholesomeness, they are called "romance" novels for good reason-- they're based in the romantic notion that brutes can be civilized into properly attentive and caring partners. This may not be the greatest idea in the world, but at least what it is glamorizing is the endstate where the male romantic interest has a proper appreciation for the heroine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sov View Post
    If Korimyr thinks Max Hardcore is nasty or disturbing he should also check out some of the female-created yaoi, manga, and other pornographic cartoons out there.
    I have. I feel the same way about them. I've read enough Highlander Duncan/Methos rape slash to last a lifetime-- that is to say, almost half of one story-- and I've talked to enough other fanfic writers to say that I'd rather prefer they were out in the world having sex than sitting in their rooms writing about it. At very least they might learn something about the subject, and hopefully they might be inclined to channel their creative impulses in a more wholesome direction.

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    I don't think it's necessary. I may not like the way these novels handle rape-- especially the idea that decent and otherwise worthy men will engage in it-- but a woman who reads these novels isn't identifying with the rapist and hopefully isn't building an emotional connection between being abused and getting off. I'd say there's an important psychological difference between being pressured to play the attacker and being pressured to play the victim, so even if the fantasy does develop into a fetish, there's less harm done.

    Aside from that nasty little bit of unwholesomeness, they are called "romance" novels for good reason-- they're based in the romantic notion that brutes can be civilized into properly attentive and caring partners. This may not be the greatest idea in the world, but at least what it is glamorizing is the endstate where the male romantic interest has a proper appreciation for the heroine.
    Yeah, they're based on the "romantic" notion that men will overpower, dominate, and control women and force them to do what they want, when they want.. and the women will fall in love with them for it and they'll live happily ever after. Wonderful notion, eh? To fall for your rapist?

    So, just how isn't the woman reading these novels and masturbating to the scenes where the man brutalizes the heroine NOT "identifying" with the rapist and building an "emotional connection" between rape and getting off? Because the absolute sexiest scenes are the rape ones. Not the end where they "fall in love" and she just ignores all the brutality he did to her. The masturbatory scenes are not in the end of the book.

    You're just making excuses now for your inconsistencies. You say "hopefully" she isn't building these so-called "emotional connections". But can we really afford to take that chance? What if... *gasp*... she IS? Should she really be allowed to do that? Should she really be allowed to reach sexual pleasure that way?

    Also:

    I'd say there's an important psychological difference between being pressured to play the attacker and being pressured to play the victim, so even if the fantasy does develop into a fetish, there's less harm done.
    wait wait wait... I thought it was "degrading" and "humiliating" and setting some bad example. So now the issue is the men and women portraying the Doms in these porn movies? Not the men and women being degraded, but the ones doing the "degradation" to them?

    As Sov already said... these things do not create desires. They are an expression of desires that already exist for 10s of millions of people.

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    So, just how isn't the woman reading these novels and masturbating to the scenes where the man brutalizes the heroine NOT "identifying" with the rapist and building an "emotional connection" between rape and getting off? Because the absolute sexiest scenes are the rape ones.
    That's a matter of opinion.
    I find nothing "sexy" about rape whatsoever.
    It's a complete turn-off to me; in fact, it's difficult for me to even read about. It's one of the rare things that makes me feel squeamish and uncomfortable.
    I think, as a woman, I identify too much with the victims, and their victimization makes me feel both angry and somehow ashamed (even though there's no reason for them to feel ashamed- it's not their fault, obviously- and no reason for me to feel ashamed on their behalf; I realize this, but it's not something I have any control over).

    I can understand how/ why a rape survivor would find rape scenes a turn-on. It is probably quite healthy and empowering; a sort of reclamation.
    Last edited by 1069; 11-24-09 at 01:11 AM.

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    I'm not going to quote Zyph's super long post, but I agree with it 100%.

    I don't think Max Hardcore should be jailed or the material banned because I'm not at all comfortable with government imposing subjective moral values on us, especially at the cost of our freedom of expression.

    On the other hand, let's not pretend that all porn is equal and its all a beautiful expression of human sexuality. There is some pretty twisted stuff out there and there is nothing wrong with society attaching stigmas to some things as an effort to discourage it, without relying on the heavy hand of government to outright ban it.
    Slipping into madness is good for the sake of comparison - Unknown.

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Ahh... but they are contraband if the murder was perpetrated for the purposes of the video. They have a name for those, and they ARE illegal.
    We're not discussing snuff films here. Ger back on topic or depart the thread.

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