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Thread: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity charges

  1. #201
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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    But it does for the argument Kori's making.

    I understand your point. That whether the majority view it as degrading or not doesn't matter, because an individual might not find it degrading because they're agreeing to be a part of it.

    However I believe Kori's point is whether or not an individual may find it "degrading", the genre as a whole based on the majority cultural view point is that of "degradation", and such images promoting degradation of women is a negative thing and is just that...degrading...regardless if a minority don't find it degrading.
    But that's just it... his "point", IMO, is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what the majority finds degrading. If I choose to engage in or film myself doing, or watch films that "degrade" women... it hurts no one. Hell, no one even fricken knows about it! lol

    I guess I'm taking this from more of a male view point, where the appeal to this kind of thing is the notion of power (akin to why its theorized rape usually happens) without the legal stigma's of actual rape. The degradation of the female IS the turn on for the majority that like this style I'd imagine.
    I could go into the psychological reasons why women find it appealing, but do you know what it often comes back to? The fact that society - in general - represses a woman's sexual desires. So, the condemnation and banning of these types of things only adds fuel to the fire. It only feeds the desire, the need, to do them.

    And do you have any idea how many women BEG for those 'degrading' things to be done to them? Millions. And I'm not exaggerating. Millions. I'm in the BDSM scene, I frequent forums, BDSM 'dating' sites and the like and there are... Millions. There are 35 million members in one dating site I go to. And, I am considered quite 'vanilla' in the BDSM scene, if that gives you ANY indication at all.

    Correct. I'm not determining it. Well, let me take that back. I'm assuming that the majority of them did it for the reasons I theorized about because the majority of the ones that I knew in the grades near me that did the same thing when we were underclassmen generally expressed regrets for it or reasons for it outside of "for sexual pleasure".
    Women express those same regrets during "normal" sex too. All the time.

  2. #202
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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Because what you think is right is not necessarily right.
    A lesson would-be censors would do well to finally learn.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    In much the same way that you view censorship as a breach of your rights, society at large can view your pleasures as violating the rights of others (if, say, you leave your incredibly vague notion stand as an absolute position). I'm sure you are willing to give way to exceptions to that rule.
    There's an exception to every rule, including the rule that there should be an exception to every rule.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    My position was vague in the acceptance of certain pornography. Likewise, I am hesitant to quite figure out what should be legislated against other than some of the more obvious (child porn featuring child actors is to me, something that obviously should be censored.
    The rationale that child pornography should be contraband because crimes were involved in its production does not hold up. Footage of actual murders, suicides, and gruesome accidents are readily available to the public. We do not censor Holocaust footage. Is child rape worse than the Holocaust? It's already legal for the state investigators and law enforcers to view child pornography and they claim it is evidence of a massive multi-billion dollar CP industry. Why should we take the word of cops and investigators who have a track record of dishonesty (recall the "Satanic Ritual Abuse" scam). Why should they be allowed privileged access to information? Freedom of inquiry and expression must be available equally to all, with special privileges for none.

    Moreover, child pornography laws under the status quo are batsh!t crazy. A 15 year old and a 5 year old are both considered "children" under these laws. Whether someone is legal for sexual activity is pegged to an arbitrary age rather than a true appraisal of ability to consent. Even within those already poor parameters, it gets even worse: in many states the age of consent for sexual activity is 16, yet a 16 year old texting pics of herself in sexy poses can get charged with the production and distribution of child pornography.

    The insanity goes beyond the laws themselves. Sentencing for CP can easily get into the centuries or millennia (literally). Someone caught with a few pictures or one video might get more time than a father who raped his preteen daughter for years (for example).
    Last edited by Sov; 11-23-09 at 05:36 PM.
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  3. #203
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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Sov View Post
    A lesson would-be censors would do well to finally learn. There's an exception to every rule, including the rule that there should be an exception to every rule.
    The rationale that child pornography should be contraband because crimes were involved in its production does not hold up. Footage of actual murders, suicides, and gruesome accidents are readily available to the public. We do not censor Holocaust footage. Is child rape worse than the Holocaust?
    No, but child rape is still happening. The Holocaust isn't. Child porn encourages future child abuse to make the films.

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And really here's your huge problem. You're pissy about the war and want to interject it in any other conversation which is obvious from this entire post with your AA comments and these.
    If that were true I'd mention it in most of my posts here, and I don't. I'm also hardly a "prude" when it comes to the military or violence. I have militaria, grew up playing war sims and still do on occasion, have friends from military families. I also lack a hysterical attitude toward guns and self-defense including defense against tyranny (I support these more than any Republican in office does). But that hardly means I can't see through the scams of fraudsters who profit off the deaths of people braver than themselves. What I described in my previous reply just happens to be a good example of how screwed up much of society is. I ought to be able to address the rest of your post later, just wanted to clear that up.
    Last edited by Sov; 11-23-09 at 05:56 PM.
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  5. #205
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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Sov View Post
    To the extent this is true, that's a big part of why "society" is sick. Once you're a hypocrite and shrug it off by telling yourself "oh well, everyone is a hypocrite," you'll ultimately stand for any bigotry and any hypocrisy. Eventually it may be sex-negative bigots/hypocrites who are shunned. I'm comfortable with that notion.
    Well, I could answer in a way you want, which would be to deny that we are hypocrites, and then be labeled a hypocrite anyway. Or I could put up my hands and say, yeah, we probably all are hypocrites. Which would you prefer I do?

    But I'm not really going down a sliding slope. I'm mostly comfortable with how we run things now (aside from my disagreement about jailing Max Hardcore, even though I find some of the fetishes abhorrent) , and not really interested in moving one direction or another, so I don't really understand how sooner or later I would advocate for anything more later on.

    And yes, responsible government legislates morality in the broad sense. They all do. I'm just more wary of doing so than most social conservatives.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Why not?

    Why can't humans be hypocrites but society leave them alone? Why can't we put our irrational heads together and build a rational society? If we didn't strive for that, we wouldn't have a society at all, or rule of law, or any of that stuff.



    I don't.
    Building a completely rational society is the work of political philosophers for pedagogical purposes, and nothing more. I don't give up on justice or some liberty, but unless we are arguing over misunderstandings (which I'm still hoping for), I'm finding your continued offense towards me seriously naive and slightly irritating.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Sov View Post
    This doesn't justify the status quo, anymore than it justifies societies in which the male ruling class has people hanged for sexual immorality and privately has access to harems of teenage prostitutes. A society doesn't have to be as sexually repressed, hysterical and hypocritical as status quo America any more than America's ally, Saudi Arabia.
    You are right, it does not inherently justify positions. However, conceptually, paradoxes are a given.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Aaaahhh!

    Just heard of him on another board for the first time. He won't leave me alone!

    I didn't know he invented the term. I learned it from the porn film "Cafe Flesh". In it, the world is mostly sex negatives, who all flock to the cafe to watch the few sex-positives perform a cabaret sex act. The negatives desperately want to have sex, but can't because they get severely ill when they try.

    Watch it for a while, and pretty soon you realize YOU are a sex-negative, watching others have sex on the screen.
    I'll check it out. That will actually be true for someone who stops at just watching and never has any "real" (social) sex in his/her life.

    Regarding sex-positivity, in "The Necessary Revolution: Sex-Positive Feminism in the Post-Barnard Era," Carol Queen writes:

    It’s the cultural philosophy that understands sexuality as a potentially positive force in one’s life, and it can, of course, be contrasted with sex-negativity, which sees sex as problematic, disruptive, dangerous. Sex-positivity allows for and in fact celebrates sexual diversity, differing desires and relationships structures, and individual choices based on consent.
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  9. #209
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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    You know, after thinking about... Korimyr, do you feel the same about romance novels that millions of women enjoy worldwide? They're chocked full of rape. And they're books usually written BY women, FOR women. Most women consider them erotica. Should they be banned as well?

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    No, but child rape is still happening.
    So is homicide and footage of it isn't automatically contraband. And contraband status creates privileged access rather than preventing access.
    Last edited by Sov; 11-23-09 at 08:17 PM.
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