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Thread: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity charges

  1. #191
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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    But remember how I said I believe all humans are hypocrites, it just takes time to figure out where.
    This doesn't justify the status quo, anymore than it justifies societies in which the male ruling class has people hanged for sexual immorality and privately has access to harems of teenage prostitutes. A society doesn't have to be as sexually repressed, hysterical and hypocritical as status quo America any more than America's ally, Saudi Arabia.
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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    First off, I'm not as "out there" as some of you think.
    Stop it. You're ruining the fantasy

    Now, it doesn't matter what people "generally" find degrading.
    But it does for the argument Kori's making.

    I understand your point. That whether the majority view it as degrading or not doesn't matter, because an individual might not find it degrading because they're agreeing to be a part of it.

    However I believe Kori's point is whether or not an individual may find it "degrading", the genre as a whole based on the majority cultural view point is that of "degradation", and such images promoting degradation of women is a negative thing and is just that...degrading...regardless if a minority don't find it degrading.

    Women watch it too, being that rape fantasies ARE the number one female fantasy.
    LOL. I actually found that out from a girl I went to college with. (Strange girl, for a while kept saying how she wanted her first time to be with a guy who'd donkey punch her so she could have it done with without having to think about it).

    However, I'd dare say that even if a majority of girls that watch porn like rape porn (and that's even questionable because in things with such a wide variety of genres, something could be "number one" without having a majority appeal, but lets use it for the purpose of this) that it would still be a minority of the female population as a whole. Granted, just a guess here and not scientific in any way shape or form.

    I guess I'm taking this from more of a male view point, where the appeal to this kind of thing is the notion of power (akin to why its theorized rape usually happens) without the legal stigma's of actual rape. The degradation of the female IS the turn on for the majority that like this style I'd imagine.

    Whether or not they enjoy it is not for you to determine. It's for THEM to determine.
    Correct. I'm not determining it. Well, let me take that back. I'm assuming that the majority of them did it for the reasons I theorized about because the majority of the ones that I knew in the grades near me that did the same thing when we were underclassmen generally expressed regrets for it or reasons for it outside of "for sexual pleasure".

    The middle ground is "to each their own".
    I think the middle ground can easily be that its sociatally seen as unacceptable without being seen as ILLEGAL.

    In some cases, it's very very good.
    Indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Interesting idea, but I see one big problem - many people can't actually act out their sexual fantasies, because they don't have a willing partner or feel ashamed of them.
    This is true, which is likely the group of people that gravitate most to pornography depicting it (and why I do think pornography in general shouldn't be banned save for a few specific genres that is more because of the legal ramifications even creating it). That said, it is generally far easier...on average...to find a partner that will attempt such things then it is to say...kill someone and get away with it.

    But let me point out that my main concern with sex vs. violence is the ridiculous idea that porn is harmful to society, yet violence in media is embraced as if it's not.
    And I'll state again, I think a large part of that is because society doesn't feel it needs to impress that violence in media is as harmful to society because there is other deterents (the law) that keep it from happening. Those deterents, by and large, aren't present with sex so the sociatal deterent must be stronger.

    And with that said...

    You're making it as if violence, all violence, isn't shunned in any way shape or form by society. We still have a rating system for TV, video games, and Movies where violence factors into it. Extremely violent games, like Manhunt, or movies, like Saw are generally pushed as something that Children should not be anywhere near. While its not nearly as harped upon as sex (as I said, it may be that society doesn't feel the need to harp on it as much is as great since there are other deterents) its hardly just wholesale completely and utterly accepted fully.

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Sov View Post
    Wilhelm Reich.
    Aaaahhh!

    Just heard of him on another board for the first time. He won't leave me alone!

    I didn't know he invented the term. I learned it from the porn film "Cafe Flesh". In it, the world is mostly sex negatives, who all flock to the cafe to watch the few sex-positives perform a cabaret sex act. The negatives desperately want to have sex, but can't because they get severely ill when they try.

    Watch it for a while, and pretty soon you realize YOU are a sex-negative, watching others have sex on the screen.

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And I'll state again, I think a large part of that is because society doesn't feel it needs to impress that violence in media is as harmful to society because there is other deterents (the law) that keep it from happening. Those deterents, by and large, aren't present with sex so the sociatal deterent must be stronger.
    But those deterrents aren't working!!!!!

    You're making it as if violence, all violence, isn't shunned in any way shape or form by society. We still have a rating system for TV, video games, and Movies where violence factors into it. Extremely violent games, like Manhunt, or movies, like Saw are generally pushed as something that Children should not be anywhere near. While its not nearly as harped upon as sex (as I said, it may be that society doesn't feel the need to harp on it as much is as great since there are other deterents) its hardly just wholesale completely and utterly accepted fully.
    But we harp on sex far beyond what's necessary. We restrict perfectly healthy, natural sex.

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I guess I'm taking this from more of a male view point, where the appeal to this kind of thing is the notion of power (akin to why its theorized rape usually happens) without the legal stigma's of actual rape. The degradation of the female IS the turn on for the majority that like this style I'd imagine.
    How do you know females aren't into the erotic "degradation" aspects? How could you know? That's one problem with deferring to taboos; without honest communication, there can be little learning, which is one reason repression and hypocrisy are so closely tied to ignorance. I personally do know many women who are into erotic humiliation, which you would doubtless see as "degrading."

    If your notions that violence is less judicially accepted were true, it would not be legal for minors to "play" combat simulations like "America's Army," explicit militarist indoctrination funded by the US government no less. A society in which consensual sex is more widely condemned than teenagers coming back in bodybags for stupid wars is rotten at the core. The former is not at all worthy of condemnation, while the latter is genuine exploitation by cynical merchants of death, subsidized with taxpayers' dollars.
    Last edited by Sov; 11-23-09 at 04:50 PM.
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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    But those deterrents aren't working!!!!!
    How do you figure? Because violence in general has gone up?

    But we harp on sex far beyond what's necessary. We restrict perfectly healthy, natural sex.
    Really? Cause I mean, the only way I can think you'd imagine that deterrents aren't working in violence is because society has gotten more violent in the real world, not the virtual world. Well, I believe it'd be incredibly difficult to say society hasn't gotten increasingly more sexual as well.

    Indeed, society as a whole has embraced sex and sexuality more and more over the past decade or so. Its just not hog wild open.

    And that's your issue. Your issue isn't that the deterrents aren't working, but that you seem to think there should be NO deterrents. Now, that's an entirely different discussion but the simple general fact of the matter is no, society disagree's with you and that it DOES need it.

    You're trying to defend your position by pointing to violence and saying "its not fair, its not even, its lopsided" but its really not. They're both heavily frowned upon, both actions have deterence...arguably one could easily make the case that Violence is even MORE frowned upon than sex because it can get you socially and judicially ostraciszed where as sex can primarily just get you socially ostracized.....the difference is simply in "how" its deterred.

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    How do you figure? Because violence in general has gone up?
    Because we have a violence-soaked society.

    Really? Cause I mean, the only way I can think you'd imagine that deterrents aren't working in violence is because society has gotten more violent in the real world, not the virtual world. Well, I believe it'd be incredibly difficult to say society hasn't gotten increasingly more sexual as well.
    So?

    Indeed, society as a whole has embraced sex and sexuality more and more over the past decade or so. Its just not hog wild open.
    Yeah, but for the most part, that's not killing anyone. Violence is.

    And that's your issue. Your issue isn't that the deterrents aren't working, but that you seem to think there should be NO deterrents.
    Whoa! Never said that at all.

    You're trying to defend your position by pointing to violence and saying "its not fair, its not even, its lopsided" but its really not. They're both heavily frowned upon, both actions have deterence...arguably one could easily make the case that Violence is even MORE frowned upon than sex because it can get you socially and judicially ostraciszed where as sex can primarily just get you socially ostracized.....the difference is simply in "how" its deterred.
    But it is lopsided. And the deterrents aren't working much.

    But you're missing a key point here - violence is always wrong, and harmful. Sex isn't. Sex is a private matter, unlike violence. Sex can be harmful, sure, but not always. You have to factor that in.

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    But those deterrents aren't working!!!!!
    Shhhh... *cough*

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_Worldwide]Blackwater Worldwide[/ame]
    Last edited by Sov; 11-23-09 at 04:57 PM.
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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Sov View Post
    How do you know females aren't into the erotic "degradation" aspects?
    I don't know about specific females. I do know that society, in general, at large, finds those things degrading. At least outwardly. And frankly, based on the posts and views you've made on this board, I highly doubt those routinely around you make up the "average" person you find in this country.

    If your notions that violence were less judicially accepted were true, it would not be legal for minors to "play" combat simulations like America's Army, explicit militarist indoctrination funded by the US government no less.
    First, are you seriously that the laws in this country are not more strict and broad in regards to acts of violence then in regards to acts of sex?

    Second, you're argument makes no sense. First off, in regards to the level of violence potentially found America's Army is relatively low based on the amount of realism of the deaths, the gore associated with it, and the story behind it.

    Second off, you're looking incredibly ignorant in your claims or at least the implication you're trying to do by the use of "children" there. America's Army is rated by the ESRB as "teen", essentially Video Games PG-13. Know what else is rated PG-13? How about a movie like Coyote Ugly, who gets its name from an act one does after waking up from a night of drunken sex, and is essentially focused around a bar of scantily clad women dancing provocatilvely. Yet you're going to tell me that somehow sexuality is completely and utterly repressed in society for teens but violence isn't?

    Thirdly, you completely missed my point. I'm not talking about judicial reasons why people can't VIEW the action, I'm talking about judicial reasons people can't DO the action being part of the cause of why society is more okay with people being able to view it.

    Essentially, there is few physical, real life outlets for violence because if you punch someone, or maim someone, or kill someone it's going to in at least some way, if not a huge way, irrevocably change your life. As such, there doesn't need to be quite as much social stigma to violence at large because there is a judicial deterrent. Additionally, there needs to be some release for the natural tendancy towards violence humans have which outlets itself in forms of media...be it book, video, or electronic.

    Constrast that with sex, where you can have two girls back in your room, tied up, ball gags, chocolate syrup all over them, with red marks on their backside from being spanked while using a power drill with a dildo instead of the bit and it'd be pretty much prefectly fine honest reality as long as they're consenting. So because society by and large views this kind of thing as "deviant" and "abnormal", at least on outwardly, the deterrent must come from social stigma since it doesn't come from judicial stigma.

    A society in which consensual sex is more widely condemned than teenagers coming back in bodybags for stupid wars has problems.
    And really here's your huge problem. You're pissy about the war and want to interject it in any other conversation which is obvious from this entire post with your AA comments and these.

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Essentially, there is few physical, real life outlets for violence because if you punch someone, or maim someone, or kill someone it's going to in at least some way, if not a huge way, irrevocably change your life. As such, there doesn't need to be quite as much social stigma to violence at large because there is a judicial deterrent. Additionally, there needs to be some release for the natural tendancy towards violence humans have which outlets itself in forms of media...be it book, video, or electronic.

    Constrast that with sex, where you can have two girls back in your room, tied up, ball gags, chocolate syrup all over them, with red marks on their backside from being spanked while using a power drill with a dildo instead of the bit and it'd be pretty much prefectly fine honest reality as long as they're consenting. So because society by and large views this kind of thing as "deviant" and "abnormal", at least on outwardly, the deterrent must come from social stigma since it doesn't come from judicial stigma.
    You don't think there's a social stigma against having two girls tied up with chocolate syrup, etc?

    And more important, do you think acting out this scenario, or most others like it, is actually possible for most people?

    And why the hell should it matter if society thinks anything is deviant? It's not their business until harm is done. Some harm comes from sex, but most comes from violence.

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