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Thread: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity charges

  1. #141
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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Do you dispute that sexual pleasure reinforces behavior? Do you dispute that people associate sexual pleasure with whatever they are thinking, or feeling, or watching, while they masturbate? Do you dispute that regardless of whether or not the performers consented, the behaviors being depicted would be degrading and humiliating-- would cause psychological harm-- to a normal person who was expected to participate in them in a relationship that was otherwise intimate?
    So are you going to regulate what people think when they masturbate, or ban masturbation?

    Yes, I deny that it would cause psychological harm. I'm an adult, I can handle it. But I don't see you whining about all the horrible R-rated movies out there, like torture porn (the Saw series, for example), or video games. You worry about sex, but you completely ignore the saturation of sick violence available in any mall.

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Are you disagreeing with the reasons I've given for why they affect me, or are you merely ignoring them? Do you dispute that sexual pleasure reinforces behavior?
    What behavior? Engaging in more sexual pleasure?

    Do you dispute that people associate sexual pleasure with whatever they are thinking, or feeling, or watching, while they masturbate?
    Yes.

    Do you dispute that regardless of whether or not the performers consented, the behaviors being depicted would be degrading and humiliating-- would cause psychological harm-- to a normal person who was expected to participate in them in a relationship that was otherwise intimate?
    As long as they are willing, no... there is no harm, humiliation, or degradation. If someone WANTS another person to do something to them and they derive pleasure from it, how is it harming them? How is it humiliating if someone WANTS to do it? Why on earth would their pride be damaged if they're getting exactly what they want and are orgasmic about it?

    YOU think it's humiliating. YOU think it would be humiliating if it were done to you. I agree that the majority of people would, but that doesn't negate that some people do NOT. And in no way is their sexual pleasure harmful to you or anyone else.

    But the more they get off on it, the more normal they seem and the more they want these practices in their regular sex lives-- because the more they have associated sexual pleasure with these things, the more these things become a part of what "sex" means to them.
    WRONG.

    Most people have fantasies that they jack off to and they would never, ever, EVER want them to become "real". Most people have a fantasy or two that in "real life" would NOT be sexually appealing to them. So no, you are absolutely - without a doubt - incorrect.

  3. #143
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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    But the more they get off on it, the more normal they seem and the more they want these practices in their regular sex lives-- because the more they have associated sexual pleasure with these things, the more these things become a part of what "sex" means to them.
    Do not tell me what I want to do in my regular sex life. You don't know me. And it's none of your business what I think is normal or not, or how I came to think it. I am an adult, I don't need you protecting me from porn, or from any other media for that matter. I don't need you to decide what I should read or watch. You could apply this "argument" to censor anything whatsoever, not just porn.

    This comment proves that your beliefs are all about invading people's privacy and right to their own sex lives. Stay out.
    Last edited by misterman; 11-22-09 at 10:04 PM.

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    As long as they are willing, no... there is no harm, humiliation, or degradation. If someone WANTS another person to do something to them and they derive pleasure from it, how is it harming them? How is it humiliating if someone WANTS to do it?
    Someone can feel humiliation (i.e., "OMG I'm a dirty naughty slut what would my mommy think!") during consensual erotic activity. It's a rather common theme. The humiliation can add to sexual excitement.

    [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erotic_humiliation[/ame]


    (Facts you are likely well aware of, but still.)

    The factor that really matters here is CONSENT. As soon as people start regulating consensual activities it's all mostly arbitrary. People can argue to ban Max Hardcore, but similar arguments can be applied to ban everything from the Playstation or PC games to Shakespeare to key books by the most important Protestant reformer or even the Bible, as we've seen.
    Last edited by Sov; 11-22-09 at 10:23 PM.
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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Sov View Post
    I understand that you are involved in making computer or video games? What do you think of games that glorify murder and violent crime?
    Actually, I make hobby and board games-- but since roleplaying games have historically been associated with violent crime and the occult, I'll go ahead and answer.

    Games stimulate the pleasure and reward centers of the brain. This means that they function similarly to pornography-- all pornography-- in associating pleasure with the subject matters of the games. I am concerned with certain kinds of violence in video games, much as I am concerned with certain kinds of sex in pornography, but I am less concerned with violence in video games for two reasons: first, in most cases the pleasure associated with video games is less intense than that associated with sex, and second, there are much higher barriers to imitating the violent behavior depicted in video games than the sexual behavior depicted in pornography. For the most part, I am satisfied simply with keeping criminally or sadistically violent video games out of the hands of children, much as I am satisfied in keeping most pornography out of the hands of children and would only wish to see a relatively small portion banned. I can only name one video game, off the top of my head, that I would have seen banned-- though I'm sure there were more.

    It's worth reminding everyone here that it's not sex I have a problem with. It is degradation, and especially the association of degradation with sex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sov View Post
    Despite the oftimes lighthearted connotations of the term "game" many game companies tout how "realistic" and "immersive" their productions are. They often include very graphic violence, depictions of blood, gore, and mutilation along with murder.
    Violence is something that adults should be acclimated to. My problem with video games is not violence, it is criminality and sadism. It should be noted that I enjoy the Grand Theft Auto games, but I wouldn't allow children to play them. A game that depicted sadistic murder as the goal and rewarded players for inflicting additional suffering would cross the line from a game I'd see restricted to adults and a game that I would think should be banned.

    As a designer of roleplaying games, sex and violence are recurring themes in my work-- but I am careful to depict degradation and sadism only in the background, and only as the behavior of the players' enemies. I generally only play with and design for adults, but if I were playing with children or designing a game intended for them, I would also be more careful in my depiction of criminality.

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Getting between me and a porn movie is the same as getting between me and my wife.
    I would say that this statement perfectly encapsulates everything that is wrong with modern society, pornography, and you. Good day, sir.

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Sov View Post
    Someone can feel humiliation (i.e., "OMG I'm a dirty naughty slut what would my mommy think!") during consensual erotic activity. It's a rather common theme. The humiliation can add to sexual excitement.

    Erotic humiliation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    (Facts you are likely well aware of, but still.)

    The factor that really matters here is CONSENT. As soon as people start regulating consensual activities it's all mostly arbitrary. People can argue to ban Max Hardcore, but similar arguments can be applied to ban everything from the Playstation or PC games to Shakespeare to key books by the most important Protestant reformer or even the Bible, as we've seen.
    Since I'm into BDSM and the like, I'm intimately familiar with it. But it's different. You don't REALLY think that you're scum, there's a whole other dynamic going on there.

    But yes, consent is the key.

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    It's worth reminding everyone here that it's not sex I have a problem with. It is degradation, and especially the association of degradation with sex.
    And what YOU think is degrading and what others do are entirely different things. I enjoy being tied up, is that degrading? Some people think so. What about doggie style? Some people think that's degrading too. But what difference does it make? If someone enjoys it and/or enjoys watching it in porn, how in the bloody hell is that harming you or anyone else?

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Suppose instead of watching a Max Hardcore film in our bedroom, my wife and I re-enacted one. Would that be obscene? Could be be hauled off to jail? What's the difference?
    It's a gray area. That's one problem with arbitrary standards such as "obscenity." Courts contradict one another as to what is illegal and what isn't. The Supreme Court can contradict itself within a few rulings or even in the same ruling.

    By the most recent SCOTUS ruling merely possessing "obscene" material is not necessarily illegal, but producing or distributing it is. "Obscenity," as you know, is arbitrarily defined. Reminds me of how "I know it when I see it" was once actually used by a Supreme Court justice when asked about the definition of "hardcore" pornography.

    Many lawyers would recommend that even if you are creating material for private and/or completely non-profit use, you abide by the draconian USC 2257 Record Keeping Requirements, the purpose of which is supposedly to ensure that minors are not involved in pornography. Under this you'd need to keep on file copies of the material, photo copies of your IDs, model release forms with signatures, a Custodian of Records and location where police could inspect the records during specified hours, etc. By some court rulings 2257 even applies to non-commercial material. There are middle aged swingers who recorded their parties and put the clips online who have been prosecuted on this basis. There are virtually no cases of pornographers who use prepubescents being prosecuted from this angle. (Actually, absolutely zero AFAIK.) As if they give a crap about following the law anyway. As if anyone says "Hey, I was going to have sex with my preteen daughter on camera, but damn, I don't have my paperwork in order so I better not!" These laws are an insult to people's intelligence.

    Depending on area there can be state laws and local ordinances which prohibit the production of pornography within x miles from a school or church, within residential areas, etc.
    Last edited by Sov; 11-22-09 at 10:55 PM.
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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    And what YOU think is degrading and what others do are entirely different things. I enjoy being tied up, is that degrading? Some people think so. What about doggie style? Some people think that's degrading too. But what difference does it make? If someone enjoys it and/or enjoys watching it in porn, how in the bloody hell is that harming you or anyone else?
    A woman is degrading herself and an innocent child every time she breastfeeds a baby. She's having a child suck on her rock hard sweaty nipples! That's perverted. Only a seriously sick woman would engage in such behavior, especially now that baby bottles and formula are readily available.

    They've got the problem, not me, never me!
    Last edited by Sov; 11-22-09 at 11:10 PM.
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