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Thread: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity charges

  1. #121
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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Sov View Post
    In this vein, although there are stats and studies, I'll directly quote a woman describing in an interview her experience of being raped:

    What kind of evening was it?

    It was a cool-ish early fall evening, clear. I was wearing blue jeans, a not particularly clingy stretch terry zip top (kind of like a hoodie), clogs.

    Where did the rape occur?

    In the middle of the campus there's a fairly large garden. At that time, the bushes surrounding the path through the garden were pretty dense. It wasn't completely dark that evening. There were lights every so often, some of them mounted on trees.

    I was on the way to the chapel, taking a main path about halfway through the garden, when a man stepped out from behind the bushes and asked me if I had a match. I said no, and I tried to walk around him. But he grabbed me, putting one arm around my head and face and one around my arms. He then pulled me off the path towards an empty building on the garden grounds.

    Did you put up a physical struggle?

    I started out screaming, but he got his arm over my mouth. He held something against me. I didn't know what it was. My glasses were falling off.

    How scared were you?

    I remember thinking "Oh god, please don't hurt me, I'm going to die, no one hears me, no one's going to help me".

    Just to get this straight: You’d never seen this guy before, right?

    Correct.

    Did you try to push him away or harm him?

    When he first grabbed me, my struggle consisted of trying to break free of his arms, trying to get a hand free. He had one arm around me, holding one arm and pinning the other. His other hand was around my face and neck. I tried kneeing and kicking, and I lost my balance. That's something they teach you in self-defense classes often happens. It's why you should stomp on an attacker's instep instead of trying to knee him in the groin.

    I was trying to keep my footing and he was pulling me off the path. I lost one of my clogs. If I had gone completely limp, he probably would have had more trouble getting me to move. I didn't think of that because I was too scared.

    Did you struggle physically throughout?

    No. There was a small screened porch off the back of the building in the garden. He dragged me into it and pushed me down. I think I gave up struggling around then.

    Why? What was going through your mind?


    I gave up struggling out of hopelessness. It wasn't working, I couldn't get away, I didn't want to make him mad, and nobody could hear me. Losing my glasses didn't help. I'm nearsighted, with around 20/200 vision. I'm also somewhat night blind. I lose a lot of depth perception at night, even with lights. So I couldn't see where he was taking me. That contributed to the panic.

    So there you are, he's overwhelmed you ...

    Neither of us said much. Once I stopped screaming, it was very quiet. He didn't say anything, so all that was going on was just heavy breathing.

    His hat had a braided leather strap. After he pushed me down to the floor, he started to wrap the leather around my mouth. I said, "I promise, I won't scream anymore," and he stopped. That's when I really gave up, and became completely passive.

    How did the intercourse part of the rape go?

    I let him pull my pants down, off one leg. He spread my legs, and lay down on top of me. I have no idea how long it took him to rape me. It felt like forever. I just wanted him to be done, and it went on and on. He asked me my name and told me his, during the act. That's when I was thinking "Okay, this is really happening, I couldn't stop it, what happens when he's finished, is he going to let me go or is he going to kill me to get rid of the evidence?"

    What were your physical sensations?

    It seemed unreal, but I was very aware of being flat on my back on a cold cement floor, with this stranger ****ing me. I didn't smell much of anything except a wet-earth garden smell.

    It did hurt when he entered me. I don't think he noticed that I had my period. He certainly didn't notice that I had a tampon in me. Strangely, I had an orgasm.

    Was that disorienting? I've read that women who orgasm during rape often feel guilt or shame.

    Yeah, I felt shame. My body betrayed me by reacting when my mind was so against it. I remember hating myself because I had an orgasm.

    2blowhards.com: A Real Campus Rape, Part One

    This has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Kindly get back on subject or please depart the thread.

    Thanks.


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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    This has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Kindly get back on subject or please depart the thread.

    Thanks.

    Kindly take another look at the trajectory of the discussion. The thread had forked into a conversation about rape. (Considering how Max Hardcore's porn is replete with rape roleplay, this should hardly be shocking.) 1069 asked whether women can really experience sexual arousal and even orgasm while being raped. rivrrat posted evidence that this is indeed the case. I posted additional evidence. If you somehow consider rape unbearably off-topic for this thread, you should complain about the entire rape discussion fork within this thread, not just one post.

    Also, if you dislike my post providing additional evidence, why repost 100% of it?

    Last edited by Sov; 11-22-09 at 08:41 AM.
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  3. #123
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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    These are difficult and upsetting to read.
    I tried the first two.
    They mostly seem to have to do with cases of ongoing, recurrent child sexual abuse.
    I am aware that children masturbate, that it is normal for them to do so; I have read that even young children, children who have not yet gone through puberty, can experience orgasm, in some cases.
    Is it not possible that the children referred to in your links simply did not realize that what was happening to them at the hands of their caregivers or whomever was repeatedly sexually molesting them was wrong?
    I mean... it seems likely this abuse involved sexual stimulation that stopped short of actual penetration, at least at first.
    Perhaps it felt good to the children, and they didn't realize at the time that it was wrong.



    I don't know, it's such an upsetting topic.

    Do any of your other links have to do with rape? I mean, rape-rape, as in an adult forcibly having sex with another adult against her will?
    Because that situation is where I questioned whether victims sometimes have orgasms during the actual attack. It just seems so strange.

    I had, in fact, been aware that people who were sexually abused as children by people they trusted sometimes feel guilty in adulthood, because they found the abuse in some ways physically pleasurable.
    I had read that.

    Since I have no firsthand experience in this matter, I will defer to those who do.
    I was just taken aback, a little, by this assertion that rape victims experience pleasure and have orgasms during rape.
    It is not something I had ever considered. It's something I'm finding difficult to assimilate.
    Yes, the other links do speak about adult rape. As you well know, rape itself is under reported. And a woman who has an orgasm or experiences physical pleasure during a rape is even more drastically under reported. Can you imagine the confusion and guilt? But the mere fact that it IS reported in some instances (making the likelihood of it happening rare or uncommon), combined with knowing it's under-reported would have to lead one to conclude that it likely happens a LOT more often, no?

    We can assume, based on the current reporting of it, that it is an uncommon situation; but it DOES happen, and it's legitimate, and it - in no way - means the person wanted what was happening to them. It merely reiterates what I and others have been saying - sexual arousal does not require emotion. (which was a ridiculous notion to begin with)

  4. #124
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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Whole lot of effort you just went to in not giving a damn, and it is absolutely the government's place to uphold the moral standards of society-- and my place as a citizen to make my wishes known. These moral standards are everyone's business, and if Mr. Little had been a playwright while the ink of the First Amendment was still drying, he would have been pilloried and hanged by the very men who wrote it.

    There's no greater arrogance than assuming that everyone who disagrees with you is ignorant.
    Obviously these moral standards are subjective and not held by everyone because if they were they wouldn't bother making these movies. They do have a value to some people as they make good sales on them. Who are you to say that your moral code is better than everyone else's? If you don't like these movies, don't watch them. It's as simple as that. They aren't being forced down anyone's throat.

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    Obviously these moral standards are subjective and not held by everyone because if they were they wouldn't bother making these movies.
    Obviously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    They do have a value to some people as they make good sales on them.
    Yes, to some people. The question is, does the value these films hold for some people outweigh the disgust they inspire in everyone else? Does it outweigh the detrimental effects that these films have on the social behavior of the people who value them? Does the fact that some people enjoy this means that we should tolerate it?

    And I would say that the answer to these questions is "no". The nature of the majority of the replies I've received on the subject, between the vulgarities directed at me and the idea that we must tolerate everything that does not directly harm others, only reinforces my belief that moral standards must be reinforced lest they crumble even further beyond their current degraded state.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    Who are you to say that your moral code is better than everyone else's?
    I'm me, of course. If my moral code wasn't better than everyone else's, I'd be following theirs instead. Aren't you making the exact same claim, when you demand that the law be written to suit your moral beliefs and you condemn me for even suggesting otherwise?

    And in this case I'm not arguing that my moral code is better than everyone else's, or that my moral code must be made into law. I'm arguing that the vast majority of us can agree that there is something very wrong with these films and that we should not have to tolerate their existence. Unfortunately, the majority of people who agree with my first point still disagree with my second.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    If you don't like these movies, don't watch them. It's as simple as that. They aren't being forced down anyone's throat.
    It's as simple as it is irrelevant. I don't want these movies banned because I don't like them. There are a lot of things I don't like that I do not want banned, including forms of pornography that do not involve the depicted abuse of their performers. I want these movies banned because they encourage the people who view them to believe that these are normal and appropriate ways to treat their sexual partners. I believe that these movies are actively malignant and that they lead to harm being done to my family and my nation, whether I or anyone in my family watches them personally.

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Yes, to some people. The question is, does the value these films hold for some people outweigh the disgust they inspire in everyone else? Does it outweigh the detrimental effects that these films have on the social behavior of the people who value them? Does the fact that some people enjoy this means that we should tolerate it?
    Who cares if the disgust outweighs it? Majority rule isn't always the best solution. What is there to tolerate? You either watch the films or you don't.

    And I would say that the answer to these questions is "no". The nature of the majority of the replies I've received on the subject, between the vulgarities directed at me and the idea that we must tolerate everything that does not directly harm others, only reinforces my belief that moral standards must be reinforced lest they crumble even further beyond their current degraded state.
    And I submit that your opinion is no more valid than theirs is. Just because you have a different moral code doesn't mean that everyone has to follow suit. I would say that it should be the same the other way, however, you aren't being forced to watch these films, as I've stated before. People need to mind their own business.

    I'm me, of course. If my moral code wasn't better than everyone else's, I'd be following theirs instead. Aren't you making the exact same claim, when you demand that the law be written to suit your moral beliefs and you condemn me for even suggesting otherwise?
    See above.

    And in this case I'm not arguing that my moral code is better than everyone else's, or that my moral code must be made into law. I'm arguing that the vast majority of us can agree that there is something very wrong with these films and that we should not have to tolerate their existence. Unfortunately, the majority of people who agree with my first point still disagree with my second.
    I don't think there is anything wrong with these films personally. I fail to see how they affect you if you don't have to watch them.

    It's as simple as it is irrelevant. I don't want these movies banned because I don't like them. There are a lot of things I don't like that I do not want banned, including forms of pornography that do not involve the depicted abuse of their performers. I want these movies banned because they encourage the people who view them to believe that these are normal and appropriate ways to treat their sexual partners. I believe that these movies are actively malignant and that they lead to harm being done to my family and my nation, whether I or anyone in my family watches them personally.
    I don't think that's necessarily true. Some people just get off on it because it's a taboo. I think very few people actually view these as normal and acceptable sex practices.

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    It's a good thing Max got nabbed when he did. Eventually his porn might have gotten as nasty as the Bible.

    "My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him" (Song of Solomon 5:4)

    "that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you" (II Kings 18:27, Isaiah 36:12)

    "Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces..."(Malachi 2:3).
    Last edited by Sov; 11-22-09 at 06:31 PM.
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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Sov View Post
    It's a good thing Max got nabbed when he did. Eventually his porn might have gotten as nasty as the Bible.

    "My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him" (Song of Solomon 5:4)

    "that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you" (II Kings 18:27, Isaiah 36:12)

    "Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces..."(Malachi 2:3).


    Considering the way that our organs of reproduction are literally combined with our organs of excretion, it's inevitable that there will be some confusion.
    Who says God doesn't have a sense of humor?

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Still waiting Korimyr. Why is obcenity not speech?

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    Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    I don't think that's necessarily true. Some people just get off on it because it's a taboo. I think very few people actually view these as normal and acceptable sex practices.
    What practices are these actually? Mostly wet and messy play, rough sex, oral and anal sex, rape roleplay, S&M.

    These practices are indeed acceptable provided that all parties are consenting, which is true for all participants involved Max Hardcore productions.

    The porn industry clearly exploits taboos and stigmas around these practices. Sexually repressed people will often make for great impulsive/compulsive buyers for online porn (e.g. binge/purge complex). So I would agree that the "forbidden fruit" aspect can add another layer of appeal of such practices, but clearly it does not account for all or even most of it. People who actually do honest and consensual BDSM and other ostensibly 'kinky' play tend to be more sexually liberal and less swayed by taboos.

    Are these practices inherently 'sick' or 'abnormal'? I don't think so. I think they're expressions of human instincts and desires that are currently singled out by "polite society" as unacceptable. But go a ways back and mere oral or anal sex were widely portrayed as shockingly immoral, or any sex outside marriage for that matter. Social norms are far from set in stone. Social conservatives love to play up how nasty and promiscuous gays get at parades and in bathhouses, but I know from what I've personally observed that they are not just making it up. If men can be into "raunch" and being "pigs" and having Bacchanalian orgies then why not women? Why is it assumed that women could not possibly be into these practices "for real?" Sexism, that's why.
    Last edited by Sov; 11-22-09 at 07:08 PM.
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