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Thread: Vermont to Register Non-Gun Owners?

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    Re: Vermont to Register Non-Gun Owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I did not ask you for a court case, I asked you for the argument.
    What was the argument in Presser?
    The argument is the court case. The opinion is that there is no constitutional right to organize in that manner. I gave you the relevant section, that the second amendment does not forbid the outlawing of organized groups of armed men practicing and parading together. You are, of course, free to pull up the case and read further, if you like.

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    Re: Vermont to Register Non-Gun Owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Neither the National Guard, nor the Army Reserves count as militia. Those are formal pieces of the federal controlled military. The militia is composed of the people in general, you are infact assumed part of it.

    They are both the militia.

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    Re: Vermont to Register Non-Gun Owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    The argument is the court case. The opinion is that there is no constitutional right to organize in that manner. I gave you the relevant section, that the second amendment does not forbid the outlawing of organized groups of armed men practicing and parading together. You are, of course, free to pull up the case and read further, if you like.
    I asked for an argument to that end
    You have not provided one.
    If you cannot priovide such an argument, just say so.

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    Re: Vermont to Register Non-Gun Owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I asked for an argument to that end
    You have not provided one.
    If you cannot priovide such an argument, just say so.

    Perhaps you didn't recognize the argument: the Supreme Court has said there is nothing in the Second Amendment that prevents the State from outlawing such things.

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    Re: Vermont to Register Non-Gun Owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    They are both the militia.
    No, just like the Air Force, Army, etc aren't part of the militia, neither are the National Guard and Army Reserve. They are part of the standing army. Branches that are called on at whim of the Federal government. The militia is in general the People at whole (of proper age).
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Vermont to Register Non-Gun Owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    Perhaps you didn't recognize the argument: the Supreme Court has said there is nothing in the Second Amendment that prevents the State from outlawing such things.
    That's not an argument, that's an appral to authority.
    What's the the argument -- of the court -- to that end?

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    Re: Vermont to Register Non-Gun Owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, just like the Air Force, Army, etc aren't part of the militia, neither are the National Guard and Army Reserve. They are part of the standing army. Branches that are called on at whim of the Federal government. The militia is in general the People at whole (of proper age).

    That is incorrect; the Supreme Court has specifically said the militia referred to in Article 1 and the 2nd Amendment are the same thing. They further said that the organized militia is a subset of the larger militia (the pool of people that can be called up).

    The Army National Guard website also says that is exactly what it is:


    About the National Guard


    The National Guard, the oldest component of the Armed Forces of the United States and one of the nation's longest-enduring institutions, celebrated its 370th birthday on December 13, 2006. The National Guard traces its history back to the earliest English colonies in North America. Responsible for their own defense, the colonists drew on English military tradition and organized their able-bodied male citizens into militias.

    The colonial militias protected their fellow citizens from Indian attack, foreign invaders, and later helped to win the Revolutionary War. Following independence, the authors of the Constitution empowered Congress to "provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the militia." However, recognizing the militia's state role, the Founding Fathers reserved the appointment of officers and training of the militia to the states. Today's National Guard still remains a dual state-Federal force.

    more ...
    The National Guard - About the National Guard

    It is directly derived from Article 1 of the Constitution, and is the same thing as the Militia referred to in the 2nd amendment, per the Supreme Court.

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    Re: Vermont to Register Non-Gun Owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    That's not an argument, that's an appral to authority.
    What's the the argument -- of the court -- to that end?

    Sorry, court arguments consist, in part of case law. That is an argument. Court Rulings are arguments in support of a position. If you wish to research the history of the case, I'd suggest you pull it up.

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    Re: Vermont to Register Non-Gun Owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    Sorry, court arguments consist, in part of case law. That is an argument. Court Rulings are arguments in support of a position. If you wish to research the history of the case, I'd suggest you pull it up.
    I asked for an argument to that end
    You have not provided one.
    You -have- provided a court decisiion, but you have not provided the argument of the court to that end.
    If you cannot priovide such an argument, just say so.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 10-30-09 at 04:03 PM.

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    Re: Vermont to Register Non-Gun Owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I asked for an argument to that end
    You have not provided one.
    You -have- provided a court decisiion, but you have not provided the argument of the court to that end.
    If you cannot priovide such an argument, just say so.

    Here you go: there is no constitutional right to organize into para-military groups. The court has said that is the case. The Supreme Court is the final arbiter of constitutionality. You have no argument.

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