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Thread: Vermont to Register Non-Gun Owners?

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    Re: Vermont to Register Non-Gun Owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    For the state militia.
    Is participation compulsory? If not, why does it matter who currently owns a gun...especially when anyone on the list could go out and buy a gun if they wanted to join? And if it is, then the point is moot, as everyone will have a gun anyway.
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    Re: Vermont to Register Non-Gun Owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    For the state militia.
    Yeah New Hampshire might invade

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    Re: Vermont to Register Non-Gun Owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Is participation compulsory? If not, why does it matter who currently owns a gun...especially when anyone on the list could go out and buy a gun if they wanted to join? And if it is, then the point is moot, as everyone will have a gun anyway.
    That's what the bill proposes. That because the person has the duty to State militia to ensure that the federal government does not maintain a monopoly on force; that people must own guns so that they can participate in the militia should the need arise. Militia is called up, it's not like a voluntary standing army. When called up, all those of age go.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Vermont to Register Non-Gun Owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That's what the bill proposes. That because the person has the duty to State militia to ensure that the federal government does not maintain a monopoly on force; that people must own guns so that they can participate in the militia should the need arise. Militia is called up, it's not like a voluntary standing army. When called up, all those of age go.
    So if it is compulsory (if needed), remind me again what purpose this registration will serve?
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    Re: Vermont to Register Non-Gun Owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That's what the bill proposes. That because the person has the duty to State militia to ensure that the federal government does not maintain a monopoly on force; that people must own guns so that they can participate in the militia should the need arise. Militia is called up, it's not like a voluntary standing army. When called up, all those of age go.

    It's the responsibility of the federal gov't to arm the Militia.

    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

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    Re: Vermont to Register Non-Gun Owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    So if it is compulsory (if needed), remind me again what purpose this registration will serve?
    It prompts people to either perform their duty or charges them for a permit for the luxury to skip it. Those registered wouldn't be asked to join militia activities.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Vermont to Register Non-Gun Owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    It's the responsibility of the federal gov't to arm the Militia.

    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
    On a federal level. This is state level. The state militia, which is supposed to exist in contrast to the federal government so the federal government does not own monopoly on force.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
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    Re: Vermont to Register Non-Gun Owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    On a federal level. This is state level. The state militia, which is supposed to exist in contrast to the federal government so the federal government does not own monopoly on force.

    No. This is the state Militias, which is why the States have the responsibility and authority with respect to appointment of officers, training, etc. Further, no state is allowed to keep troops, except as consented to by Congress. The federal ones are the armies and navies, etc.


    To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

    To provide and maintain a Navy;

    To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

    To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

    No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.

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    Re: Vermont to Register Non-Gun Owners?

    That the federal government, that's on a federal level. The State has differing criteria and necessities for its militia. The Federal govenrment could call up the State militia (one way by declaration of war). If the federal government calls it up, they must arm them. But the State has different requirements. The States don't keep troops, they don't have an army; they have a State militia.
    Last edited by Ikari; 10-30-09 at 01:04 PM.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Vermont to Register Non-Gun Owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That the federal government, that's on a federal level. The State has differing criteria and necessities for its militia. The Federal govenrment could call up the State militia (one way by declaration of war). If the federal government calls it up, they must arm them. But the State has different requirements. The States don't keep troops, they don't have an army; they have a State militia.

    The militia in Article 1 and the militia in the Second Amendment are the same thing, and neither refer to federal troops. (Heller, p 23)


    http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf


    Although we agree with petitioners’ interpretive assumption that “militia” means the same thing in Article I and the Second Amendment, we believe that petitioners identify the wrong thing, namely, the organized militia. Unlike armies and navies, which Congress is given the power to create (“to raise . . . Armies”; “to provide . . . aNavy,” Art. I, §8, cls. 12–13), the militia is assumed by Article I already to be in existence. Congress is given thepower to “provide for calling forth the militia,” §8, cl. 15; and the power not to create, but to “organiz[e]” it—and notto organize “a” militia, which is what one would expect ifthe militia were to be a federal creation, but to organize“the” militia, connoting a body already in existence, ibid.,
    cl. 16. This is fully consistent with the ordinary definitionof the militia as all able-bodied men. From that pool,Congress has plenary power to organize the units that will make up an effective fighting force. That is what Congress did in the first militia Act, which specified that “each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective states, resident therein, who is or shall be of the age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia.” Act of May 8,1792, 1 Stat. 271. To be sure, Congress need not conscript every able-bodied man into the militia, because nothing in Article I suggests that in exercising its power to organize, discipline, and arm the militia, Congress must focus upon the entire body. Although the militia consists of all able-bodied men, the federally organized militia may consist of a subset of them.
    Finally, the adjective “well-regulated” implies nothingmore than the imposition of proper discipline and training.See Johnson 1619 (“Regulate”: “To adjust by rule ormethod”); Rawle 121–122; cf. Va. Declaration of Rights§13 (1776), in 7 Thorpe 3812, 3814 (referring to “a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people,
    24 DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA v. HELLER
    Opinion of the Court
    trained to arms”).

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