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Thread: Marijuana legalization hearing tomorrow in California!

  1. #141
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    Re: Marijuana legalization hearing tomorrow in California!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Gonzo View Post
    I can't link at the moment, but look up the Cato Institute's study of the effects of legalization of drugs in Portugal.

    You may be surprised, Dutch.

    And for the record, the Cato Institute is a Libertarian think tank.
    Drug Decriminalization in Portugal: Lessons for Creating Fair and Successful Drug Policies | Glenn Greenwald | Cato Institute: White Paper
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  2. #142
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    Re: Marijuana legalization hearing tomorrow in California!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    I have. I no longer hang out in front of 7/11's asking people to buy alcohol for me.



    Well, drug dealers have no qualms about selling marijuana to children and no, that's not my fault. The people buying alcohol for my friends and myself weren't suppose to buy alcohol for us either. But hey, it was easy to get. which brings me to my next point....the most prevalent drug being used by children of school age isn't marijuana, it's alcohol. Hardly surprising since it's both more readily accessable and cheaper than marijuana. These are just two more reasons you should oppose marijuana legalization too.

    source
    never mind the break form the keyboard, this rebuttal is quick and easy.


    Is this because of its legal status, or because a larger percentage of people enjoy the effects Alcohol in comparison with those who enjoy the effectrs of cannabis?

    Looking at countries where restrictions on marijuana use have essentially been lifted we find that alcohol consumption is by far the leader in rates of use as well, in all demographics, including minors. I am not going to dig up the data, but I have posted it before.. Alcohol consumption in the Netherlands is far more prevalent than marijuana usage, and the rate of consumption amongst minors blows ours away.

    Perhaps many people are inclined to enjoy the buzz attained from alcohol compared with those who enjoy the buzz attained from Cannabis.

    There is a HUGE difference in effect. Alcohol eases tensions, and lowers inhibitions, it is widely viewed as a social lubricant for this effect, and as such would be VERY appealing, not only to adults, but also for youth, who are striving to fit in. For minors social life takes precedence above almost everything else, it is only natural they have a predisposition to seek out a social lubricant.

    Marijuana does not have this effect, and in fact tends to have an antisocial aspect to it.

    Does it come as any surprise that alcohol is preferred, even in the face of legal status of both substances?

    This is why the focal point of both high school, and college parties is alcohol, not marijuana. without alcohol there is no party, this is because of the nature of the buzz, not because of the legal status.

    Year after year minors report that it is MUCH easier to get Marijuana than alcohol, yet they go to great lengths to attain alcohol for social functions, despite the fact that they could go through much less hassdle and have weed on hand.

    It has nothing to do with availability, it is because of the nature of the intoxication.

    For some people Alcohol is the drug of choice, for others it would be marijuana, one thing is common regardless of legality or availability.. many more people seek out, and seem inclined to enjoy the intoxication of alcohol over that of marijuana.

    Different strokes for different folks.
    Last edited by marduc; 10-30-09 at 06:45 PM.
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  3. #143
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    Re: Marijuana legalization hearing tomorrow in California!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    ....and yet you still choose to smoke. Tell me, why do you smoke it then?
    Because it is an enjoyable experience. The same reason other people indulge in certain vices.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

  4. #144
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    Re: Marijuana legalization hearing tomorrow in California!

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    you just think you've chosen to smoke. wait until you try to quit, then you know choice doesn't have a lot to do with it anymore.
    I quit for 6 months, cold turkey. I picked it up again because I missed it, not due to a physical addiction. The initial choice was mine, do not be obtuse.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Marijuana legalization hearing tomorrow in California!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    I suggest marinol.
    You prefer this to Marijuana? Hardly a safe alternative.

    SIDE EFFECTS: Dizziness, drowsiness, irritability, mood changes, difficulty concentrating, distorted vision, dry mouth and changes in appetite may occur especially the first several days as your body adjusts to the medication. If any of these effects continue or become bothersome, inform your doctor. Notify your doctor if you develop: skin rash, rapid heart rate, sleep disturbances, depression, memory loss, mental confusion, hallucinations, behavior changes, numbness or tingling of the hands or feet. Be aware that this medication may cause mood or behavior changes. If you experience any such effects, remain calm. Do not take any more doses until you contact your doctor. If you notice other effects not listed above, contact your doctor or pharmacist.

    PRECAUTIONS: Tell your doctor if you have: heart disease, high blood pressure, a history of depression or other emotional or mental conditions, allergies (especially to sesame oil). Long-term use of this medication may cause dependency. Withdrawal symptoms such as irritability, restlessness, sleeping problems, sweating, hot flashes, hiccups and loss of appetite have been reported when this medication is discontinued abruptly following long-term therapy. Do not drive, operate machinery or engage in activities requiring alertness while taking this medication. This medication should be used with caution in elderly persons as they may be more sensitive to the effects. This medication should be used only if clearly needed during pregnancy. Discuss the risks and benefits with your doctor. Because this medication appears in breast milk, consult your doctor before breast-feeding.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

  6. #146
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    Re: Marijuana legalization hearing tomorrow in California!

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    You prefer this to Marijuana? Hardly a safe alternative.

    Got to love a world where a synthetic version of a substance replaces one that is easily and readily attained naturally. But then again a drug company could not really profit off from natural THC, or related cannabinoids which would be able to be purified and processed to pharmaceutical standard with ease, and at a fraction of the cost.

    I love when Marinol gets touted as the universal answer to medical marijuana, when there are over 60 cannabinoids that have been isolated from cannabis. THC is but one of a whole class of substances in the understudied cannabinoid family.

    Little is known about which cannabinoids have which specific medical benefits, so they release a synthetic version THC as a generic panacea to say "see we are not overlooking its medical value", while overlooking a whole myriad of potential uses for the entire class substances, many of which are non intoxicating.

    Being pure THC (even synthetic) marinol is good at one thing, getting the user very high; unfortunately most users report that cannabis itself is much better at alleviating their nausea, and promoting appetite without such a complete and overwhelming stoned feeling from pure THC.

    So, no Marinol is not the cure all for the problem as it is being touted, rather exploring what it is specifically in the whole class of cannabinoid drugs, and which ones specifically have which benefits is. Doing this could very well result in finding a much better solution (processed from natural cannabinoids working in tandem) that can be tailored to have the desired results, while minimizing on the intoxication effects that result from THC alone.

    Medical marijuana patients often tailor the strain of cannabis they use to maximize the desired combination of cannabinoids. Different strains and different ratios of THC to other cannabinoids produce different effects, and even different intoxications, some more beneficial than others for a specific user or problem, and this does not necessarily equate to maximizing THC content and the associated intoxication.

    Marinol -clocking in at 100% THC (synthetic)-, most certainly does maximize THC content, and as such is not what the doctor ordered for many medical marijuana recipients, so no, Marinol is not a viable alternative for many.
    Last edited by marduc; 10-30-09 at 08:26 PM.
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    Re: Marijuana legalization hearing tomorrow in California!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    Personally, I wish california would just go ahead and withdraw from the union.
    Cool with me. I'll just move there with all the thin pot smokers and you can move to Alabama with all the 500lb 13 year old kids who eat at McDonald's 5 times a day (but don't smoke pot since its' "bad for their health").

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    Re: Marijuana legalization hearing tomorrow in California!

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    Got to love a world where a synthetic version of a substance replaces one that is easily and readily attained naturally. But then again a drug company could not really profit off from natural THC, or related cannabinoids which would be able to be purified and processed to pharmaceutical standard with ease, and at a fraction of the cost.

    I love when Marinol gets touted as the universal answer to medical marijuana, when there are over 60 cannabinoids that have been isolated from cannabis. THC is but one of a whole class of substances in the understudied cannabinoid family.

    Little is known about which cannabinoids have which specific medical benefits, so they release a synthetic version THC as a generic panacea to say "see we are not overlooking its medical value", while overlooking a whole myriad of potential uses for the entire class substances, many of which are non intoxicating.

    Being pure THC (even synthetic) marinol is good at one thing, getting the user very high; unfortunately most users report that cannabis itself is much better at alleviating their nausea, and promoting appetite without such a complete and overwhelming stoned feeling from pure THC.

    So, no Marinol is not the cure all for the problem as it is being touted, rather exploring what it is specifically in the whole class of cannabinoid drugs, and which ones specifically have which benefits is. Doing this could very well result in finding a much better solution (processed from natural cannabinoids working in tandem) that can be tailored to have the desired results, while minimizing on the intoxication effects that result from THC alone.

    Medical marijuana patients often tailor the strain of cannabis they use to maximize the desired combination of cannabinoids. Different strains and different ratios of THC to other cannabinoids produce different effects, and even different intoxications, some more beneficial than others for a specific user or problem, and this does not necessarily equate to maximizing THC content and the associated intoxication.

    Marinol -clocking in at 100% THC (synthetic)-, most certainly does maximize THC content, and as such is not what the doctor ordered for many medical marijuana recipients, so no, Marinol is not a viable alternative for many.
    Not to mention the counter-intuitive method of ingestion.

    Cancer patient: I'm really nauseous. I can't eat.

    Doctor: Here, swallow this pill!
    Last edited by Ethereal; 10-30-09 at 08:34 PM.

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    Re: Marijuana legalization hearing tomorrow in California!

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    you just think you've chosen to smoke. wait until you try to quit, then you know choice doesn't have a lot to do with it anymore.
    Unlike tobacco, marajuana has no physically addictive traits at all (it's purely psychologically addictive).

    And no, I'm a smoker and I do choose to smoke. About 2 months ago, I went for a week with without smoking (which proves I can choose not to smoke) - but I gave in and decided to buy a pack (and I started smoking every day again).

    Even now, some days I choose to go with only 5-7 cigarettes a day if smoking intereferes with my priorites. Other days I'll smoke a whole pack. Qutting tobacco is a hard choice, but it's still a choice.

  10. #150
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    Re: Marijuana legalization hearing tomorrow in California!

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    you just think you've chosen to smoke. wait until you try to quit, then you know choice doesn't have a lot to do with it anymore.
    I was a heavy smoker for 18 years. I chose to smoke every time I lit one up. I also chose to quit and continue to choose not to smoke.

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