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Thread: Marijuana legalization hearing tomorrow in California!

  1. #101
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    Re: Marijuana legalization hearing tomorrow in California!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sands View Post
    That, is truly frightening.


    I expect teachers to have some modicum of intelligence.
    Nice, personal attacks without addressing any of the issues raised. Is that what you consider.....intelligence?

  2. #102
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    Re: Marijuana legalization hearing tomorrow in California!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Basically, anything that is dangerous should be illegal.
    I didn't say that. I did say both tobacco and marijuana should be illegal due to the fact they cause lung disease.

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    Re: Marijuana legalization hearing tomorrow in California!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    I didn't say that. I did say both tobacco and marijuana should be illegal due to the fact they cause lung disease.
    What about alcohol? That causes liver cancer.

    What about fatty foods? They cause heart disease.

    What about tanning beds? Those cause skin cancer.

  4. #104
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    Re: Marijuana legalization hearing tomorrow in California!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    When I was a minor the hardest substance for me to acquire was alcohol. Marijuana, on the other hand, was readily available to me from the day I learned how to ask for it.

    Prohibition puts drugs into the hands of children. I find it disturbing that a teacher would be in favor of such a thing...
    When I was a child it was alcohol that was readily available. All we had to do was go down to the local 7/11 and ask adults to buy it for us. Most turned use down, some would take our money and buy us the alcohol. Marijuana was much harder to get. It would seem our childhoods were somewhat different.


    In regards to your quip about my favoring putting drugs into the hands of children, I'll not bother addressing that.

  5. #105
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    Re: Marijuana legalization hearing tomorrow in California!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    What about alcohol? That causes liver cancer.

    What about fatty foods? They cause heart disease.

    What about tanning beds? Those cause skin cancer.
    I thought this thread was about the legalization of marijuana. If you want one about alcohol, fatty foods, or tanning beds.....be my guest. Start a thread. I'll debate the merits of that too.

  6. #106
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    Re: Marijuana legalization hearing tomorrow in California!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    I thought this thread was about the legalization of marijuana. If you want one about alcohol, fatty foods, or tanning beds.....be my guest. Start a thread. I'll debate the merits of that too.
    Okay fine, one more time what are the benefits of keeping marijuana illegal vs. making it legal?

  7. #107
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    Re: Marijuana legalization hearing tomorrow in California!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    I don't think the increase of lung disease would be that significant. You act as if marijuana being legalized will somehow dramatically increase the amount that people smoke weed. Guess what? People a lot of weed right now. The law doesn't really stand in the way of people doing it. I fail to see how there would be that much of a difference if it were legal. But please, keep trying the lung disease angle. It's very easy to dismiss.
    I believe you to be wrong. Increased availability and a lower price pretty much guarantee greater use.

    source

    Where Legalization Has Flourished, Drug Use Has IncreasedDr. Kevin SabetDrug Policy Consultant
    Expert Verified | See Profile Recommend (4) Comments (5) “Do as the Dutch Do” -- this phrase has become a clarion call for legalization advocates, who fondly imagine a day when the world, or at least the U.S., treats marijuana the way the Dutch do. Almost every drug legalization discussion leads both sides of the debate focusing on drug policy in the Netherlands. It is fascinating that this tiny country of 16 million people is so often referenced in comparison to countries (like the U.S. or U.K.) with much larger populations. The reason, of course, for this often-used comparison is due to the fact that the Netherlands is one of the only places in the world where you can buy marijuana legally.

    In 1976, as the counter-culture swept through much of the western world proclaiming free love and drugs (and as drug use was reaching historic levels in the United States), the Dutch approved a formal policy to allow the possession and sale of up to about ninety marijuana cigarettes (thirty grams). The government allowed “coffee-shops” selling marijuana to appear around the country and approved in 1980 guidelines allowing more local control discretion of commercial marijuana practices. As the Dutch got used to the idea of legal marijuana, coffee-shops popped up in nicer parts of town and the number of them grew eleven-fold in eight years (nine in 1980 and 102 by 1988) (Jansen 1991). Currently, a lower-end estimate numbers coffee-shops at about 1,500.

    But not everyone has been pleased with the proliferation of coffee-shops in the Netherlands. Pressures from residents to reduce the noise associated with marijuana-vendors and patrons, and international bodies (like the International Narcotics Control Board, an arm of the United Nations) calling for less drug tourism and drug trafficking led the country in 1996 to tighten their regulations. Now coffee-shops are licensed and it is only legal to possess fifteen joints (five grams) at one time.

    MacCoun and Reuter, two advocates of softer marijuana policies, point out that between 1976 and 1984, marijuana use rates remained about the same for adults and youth. Thus the effect of legalization (or, “depenalization” as they put it) was minimal. From the mid-eighties to the mid-nineties, though, they observe that “surveys reveal that the lifetime prevalence of marijuana in Holland increased consistently and sharply.” They report 15 percent of 18-20 year olds used marijuana in their lifetime in 1984 turned into 44 percent by 1996 -- a 300 percent increase. Indeed, they also find cite past-month prevalence of 8.5 percent in 1984 to 18.5 percent in 1996. Why would marijuana use suddenly increase in the mid-1980s, after remaining relatively flat for nearly the first ten years of lenient marijuana laws? MacCoun and Reuter point to “commercialization” as the culprit. That is, they contend that during this period between 1984 and 1996, the greater glamorization and more visible promotion of marijuana lead to an increase in use. They claim that depenalization without commercialization does not increase use, as noted in steady use rates between 1976 and 1984 (MacCoun and Reuter 2001).......

  8. #108
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    Re: Marijuana legalization hearing tomorrow in California!

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Okay fine, one more time what are the benefits of keeping marijuana illegal vs. making it legal?

    Usage will increase of course. This increases the number of individuals who will experience lung damage which will increase the healthcare costs for all of us.

    source
    ......MacCoun and Reuter, two advocates of softer marijuana policies, point out that between 1976 and 1984, marijuana use rates remained about the same for adults and youth. Thus the effect of legalization (or, “depenalization” as they put it) was minimal. From the mid-eighties to the mid-nineties, though, they observe that “surveys reveal that the lifetime prevalence of marijuana in Holland increased consistently and sharply.” They report 15 percent of 18-20 year olds used marijuana in their lifetime in 1984 turned into 44 percent by 1996 -- a 300 percent increase. Indeed, they also find cite past-month prevalence of 8.5 percent in 1984 to 18.5 percent in 1996. Why would marijuana use suddenly increase in the mid-1980s, after remaining relatively flat for nearly the first ten years of lenient marijuana laws? MacCoun and Reuter point to “commercialization” as the culprit.....

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    Re: Marijuana legalization hearing tomorrow in California!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    When I was a child it was alcohol that was readily available. All we had to do was go down to the local 7/11 and ask adults to buy it for us. Most turned use down, some would take our money and buy us the alcohol. Marijuana was much harder to get. It would seem our childhoods were somewhat different.
    Times change. Perhaps you should adapt.

    In regards to your quip about my favoring putting drugs into the hands of children, I'll not bother addressing that.
    Well, it's true. Prohibition creates an unregulated black market for drugs. Consequently, it empowers drug dealers who have no qualms about selling drugs to children. That's your fault.

  10. #110
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    Re: Marijuana legalization hearing tomorrow in California!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Do you have any idea how much law enforcement operations, the legal process, and incarceration costs America? People already smoke pot, you've offered no evidence that legalization will increase the instances of Obstructive Lung Disease beyond their current numbers. What we do know is that less money will be spent pursuing and arresting marijuana offenders, less money will be spent trying them, and less money will be spent incarcerating them.

    And it will be much easier for some sick people to get the relief that marijuana offers for their ailments.
    I suggest marinol.

    "Medical" Marijuana - The Facts

    Medical marijuana already exists. It's called Marinol.


    A pharmaceutical product, Marinol, is widely available through prescription. It comes in the form of a pill and is also being studied by researchers for suitability via other delivery methods, such as an inhaler or patch. The active ingredient of Marinol is synthetic THC, which has been found to relieve the nausea and vomiting associated with chemotherapy for cancer patients and to assist with loss of appetite with AIDS patients.


    Unlike smoked marijuana--which contains more than 400 different chemicals, including most of the hazardous chemicals found in tobacco smoke-Marinol has been studied and approved by the medical community and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the nation's watchdog over unsafe and harmful food and drug products. Since the passage of the 1906 Pure Food and Drug Act, any drug that is marketed in the United States must undergo rigorous scientific testing. The approval process mandated by this act ensures that claims of safety and therapeutic value are supported by clinical evidence and keeps unsafe, ineffective and dangerous drugs off the market.


    There are no FDA-approved medications that are smoked. For one thing, smoking is generally a poor way to deliver medicine. It is difficult to administer safe, regulated dosages of medicines in smoked form. Secondly, the harmful chemicals and carcinogens that are byproducts of smoking create entirely new health problems. There are four times the level of tar in a marijuana cigarette, for example, than in a tobacco cigarette

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