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Thread: Obama's Complicity in Torturing an Innocent Man

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    Re: Obama's Complicity in Torturing an Innocent Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Do you believe that Obama has delivered on his promises re: torture from the campaign? How about regarding equal rights for gays/lesbians? Or, reversing government snooping? Or, greater governmental transparency? Or, for that matter, closing the prison at Gitmo?

    Forget McCain for a minute...Has Obama delivered the ACTIONS he promised re: torture, illegal imprisonment, free speech violations, and human rights/equality?


    torture from the campaign? Yes
    How about regarding equal rights for gays/lesbians? No
    Or, reversing government snooping? No
    Or, greater governmental transparency? Yes
    Or, for that matter, closing the prison at Gitmo? No

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    Re: Obama's Complicity in Torturing an Innocent Man

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    torture from the campaign? Yes
    How about regarding equal rights for gays/lesbians? No
    Or, reversing government snooping? No
    Or, greater governmental transparency? Yes
    Or, for that matter, closing the prison at Gitmo? No
    In what way is his government more transparent? This is TOTALLY arguable.

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    Re: Obama's Complicity in Torturing an Innocent Man

    Obama Fails on Transparency | Center for Constitutional Rights

    “I could not be more disappointed: In its first real case, the Obama administration has chosen to continue the Bush administration’s policy of secrecy before justice despite all the uplifting rhetoric about transparency. The Bush administration invoked the State Secrets privilege more than any other administration in history to keep embarrassing cases out of court. The question is, when will Obama roll back the illegal expansion of executive power he has inherited?”
    Has the Obama administration, for instance, urged the publishing of the Healthcare bill so that U.S. taxpayers and others can actually read it?

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    Re: Obama's Complicity in Torturing an Innocent Man

    It's been 9 months, I find that I am running out of patience waiting for "change I can believe in."

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    Re: Obama's Complicity in Torturing an Innocent Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    But he kept an innocent man in prison who was tortured and continues to prosecute him. Thus, the Obama administration IS complicit in torture.

    For the record, I am NOT happy with Obama today.


    This is a complicated story, I read the Times article, then searched Sullivan's blog b/c he referenced receiving justice dept lawyer emails as a result of blog postings he made about the case. I read those four articles, and the original Worthington article about the ruling which prompted the blog postings.

    They were making arguments about prosecuting confessions made after the torture stopped. The judge said there was no clean break b/w the torture-induced confessions and the later confessions.

    I guess I agree with the judge, however they were not using torture-produced confessions. Saying they are complicit in torture is not a fair statement, IMO. However, I think I agree with you that this case should not be prosecuted.
    Last edited by jackalope; 10-12-09 at 04:56 PM.

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    Re: Obama's Complicity in Torturing an Innocent Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    In what way is his government more transparent? This is TOTALLY arguable.

    In many ways. There is not complete transparency, that would not be a Yes answer. There is more transparency. though. Visitor logs are just one example, procedures on FOIA requests is another. There are more.

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    Re: Obama's Complicity in Torturing an Innocent Man

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    In many ways. There is not complete transparency, that would not be a Yes answer. There is more transparency. though. Visitor logs are just one example, procedures on FOIA requests is another. There are more.
    Nonetheless, there are many (important) ways in which the U.S. government is potentially less transparent...not publishing the healthcare legislation is a good example.

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    Re: Obama's Complicity in Torturing an Innocent Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Nonetheless, there are many (important) ways in which the U.S. government is potentially less transparent...not publishing the healthcare legislation is a good example.

    That is the legislative branch, not the executive branch. Obama did make a promise about putting legislation online, once he rec'd it though. Let's see if he does that.
    (I think he broke that promise with the S-CHIP legislation ... )

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    Re: Obama's Complicity in Torturing an Innocent Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    In terms of total infliction of suffering, I suspect that McCain would have been worse because of his greater interventionism, which usually involves more unjust aggression than torture does. That he would have implemented interventionist policies more quickly and effectively isn't something I regard as promising...
    Have you been keeping up on what is happening in Afghanistan?…Oh wait, that isn’t intervention, that’s just Bushes war, right?

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    Re: Obama's Complicity in Torturing an Innocent Man

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    torture from the campaign? Yes
    How about regarding equal rights for gays/lesbians? No
    Or, reversing government snooping? No
    Or, greater governmental transparency? Yes
    Or, for that matter, closing the prison at Gitmo? No
    You are kidding, right? Do you remember anything about posting legislation online so people could read it before it was voted on? What happened to that?

    Do you remember anything about no more earmarks? What happened to that?

    How about the amendments done in the dead of night behind closed doors?

    Have you ever seen so many people in an administration that couldn't apply for Dog Catcher, yet Barry slipped them in as Czars?... cutting out the vetting process by Congress? Did we get taken over by Russia while I wasn’t looking?

    I don't think your little joke is funny at all.
    Last edited by Crunch; 10-12-09 at 07:20 PM.

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