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Thread: ACLU Says Extracting DNA From Suspects Unconstitutional

  1. #31
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    Re: ACLU Says Extracting DNA From Suspects Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    Yea, I know the ACLU once again is trying to coddle crooks and the police are just completely honest and we shouldnt question them.

    ACLU Says Extracting DNA From Suspects Unconstitutional | Threat Level | Wired.com
    I agree with a few other posters here that if there is no conviction then DNA and fingerprints should not be stored, those things should only be stored if the individual has been convicted.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: ACLU Says Extracting DNA From Suspects Unconstitutional

    The theory behind storing away everybody's information is that people who are arrested once will very likely be arrested again. Completely innocent people usually aren't arrested, so even if a person is arrested, chances are it is in connection to a habit or lifestyle that merits detainment in the future. That's not to say 'lots' of people who are arrested aren't victims of circumstance, only that a majority are involved in illegalities to some extent most of the time. Just not to the point you could get a conviction this time around.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 10-12-09 at 03:24 PM.
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    Re: ACLU Says Extracting DNA From Suspects Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    The theory behind storing away everybody's information is that people who are arrested once will very likely be arrested again. Completely innocent people usually aren't arrested, so even if a person is arrested, chances are it is in connection to a habit or lifestyle that merits detainment in the future. That's not to say 'lots' of people who are arrested aren't victims of circumstance, only that a majority are involved in illegalities to some extent most of the time. Just not to the point you could get a conviction this time around.
    We have a belief in this country that one is innocent until proven guilty. Therefore there is no need to store the DNA or fingerprints of innocent people.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  4. #34
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    Re: ACLU Says Extracting DNA From Suspects Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Fair enough. Your thoughts?
    I would like a system wherein the government keeps on file the DNA of violent criminals only. I would also like a system where those samples taken from individuals in the course of an investigation are destroyed for those people who are exonerated. I would also like a system where samples are taken only in a manner comporting with the strict letter of the Fourth Amendment. Whether any of these systems are in place I do not know.

    As to the military keeping a database of DNA records, that's probably a good idea if the registry is voluntary and the individual's records are destroyed upon separation from the service or upon request.

    As to the idea of the government keeping data on firearms, I'm definitely against that. I think some jurisdictions require submitting a fired round from guns that are purchased within its bounds, and I believe there is enough doubt in the accuracy of firearms "fingerprinting" to make this sort of thing a colossal waste of resources at the very least. I oppose the government having any information on the number and/or type of firearm(s) owned by individuals for privacy reasons.

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    Re: ACLU Says Extracting DNA From Suspects Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Apples and oranges, my friend.
    Not in the sense that the question is, where does the power end? If they grab one thing, what limits them from incrementally grabbing something else? That's my main concern. You can see what liberalism has done, they incrementally turned us into a welfare state.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: ACLU Says Extracting DNA From Suspects Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    Well, I thouoght DNA samples of all new borns were stored "somewhere" for identification should they be involved in a crime as a victim. I am not certain.
    i don't think so.....

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: ACLU Says Extracting DNA From Suspects Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    I would like a system wherein the government keeps on file the DNA of violent criminals only. I would also like a system where those samples taken from individuals in the course of an investigation are destroyed for those people who are exonerated. I would also like a system where samples are taken only in a manner comporting with the strict letter of the Fourth Amendment. Whether any of these systems are in place I do not know.

    As to the military keeping a database of DNA records, that's probably a good idea if the registry is voluntary and the individual's records are destroyed upon separation from the service or upon request.

    As to the idea of the government keeping data on firearms, I'm definitely against that. I think some jurisdictions require submitting a fired round from guns that are purchased within its bounds, and I believe there is enough doubt in the accuracy of firearms "fingerprinting" to make this sort of thing a colossal waste of resources at the very least. I oppose the government having any information on the number and/or type of firearm(s) owned by individuals for privacy reasons.
    What would you consider reasonable and effective as a method to try to decrease gun-related deaths or to solve shooting deaths?
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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    Re: ACLU Says Extracting DNA From Suspects Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    What would you consider reasonable and effective as a method to try to decrease gun-related deaths or to solve shooting deaths?
    For prevention I'd like to see stricter sentencing for violent and repeat offenders, coupled with decriminalization of marijuana and the like, opening space up in prisons for those violent people who ought to be there. Nothing particularly innovative, I suppose.

    As for solving, I don't know the answer to that. I suspect as the technology behind DNA and other scientific forensics progresses, it will become harder and harder to evade the police and win an acquittal. I think focusing on the firearm is the wrong direction to go as the best evidence a gun registry will ever give you is circumstantial evidence.

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    Re: ACLU Says Extracting DNA From Suspects Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    We have a belief in this country that one is innocent until proven guilty. Therefore there is no need to store the DNA or fingerprints of innocent people.
    But taking DNA is not inconsistent with that precept. While it implies you are risk factor for repeat crime, taking DNA cannot turn you from innocent to not innocent, it can only speed along the process by which your criminality or lack thereof is determined.

    When the state reduces freedom for the sake of order, they tend to do it in those instances where people are less likely to care or come up with a good argument for why they should not. DNA only makes it easier to determine if you were involved in a crime scene, innocently or guiltily; it reveals nothing intimate about your person or character other than that. Since privacy is effected so minimally, and because it goes a long way toward preventing murder, rape, and theft, nobody is able to come up with a good argument for why the practice should be discontinued.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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