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Thread: Guess Who Has the Highest Medical Claim Rejection Rate?

  1. #111
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    Re: Guess Who Has the Highest Medical Claim Rejection Rate?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    No, but my mother, godfather, cousin, and other relatives and friends do, and they are on MY side. Sorry, you lose.
    Three or four close relatives do not constitute "the medical field."

    I've supplied plenty of documented evidence that a significant majority of our health care providers support a public option. Thus far, you have provided absolutely zero documentation for anything you've claimed in this thread. ZERO. Please provide us with at least as much valid documentation to the contrary.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    the fact is many physicians have already said they will leave that field of practice under Obamacare, they already HATE medicare
    How many is "many?" Thus far, you have provided absolutely zero documentation for anything you've claimed in this thread. ZERO. Please provide us with valid documentation for this questionable assertion.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    The AMA is an association of some physicians, again, many even in it's membership are opposed.
    How many is "many?" I've already provided links to several polls that indicate physicians overwhelmingly support a public option - physicians from every medical specialty and from every geographic location in the country. Thus far, you have provided absolutely zero documentation for anything you've claimed in this thread. ZERO. Please provide us with valid documentation for your questionable assertion that "many AMA members are opposed" to a public option.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    And again, the numbers have been exposed, so bring the right ones.
    You've "exposed" nothing. Provided no links. Offered no valid documentation. Just a lot of bluster and posturing. Please provide us with valid evidence that 45,000 people do NOT die annually due to lack of health insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Because you have nothing else. I understand, you want to get your way, why let facts and fair debate get in the way.
    What "facts" are you referring to? I've provided numerous links to valid, indisputable, factual data. Thus far, you have provided absolutely zero documentation for anything you've claimed in this thread. ZERO.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    if you can't trust people who provide services based on clients needs
    "Provide services?" What "services" do health insurance salesmen provide besides endlessly pushing little pieces of paper around? The health insurance industry is one huge circle jerk - each salesman beating off the other to keep their money-making death panels alive and functioning.

    "Based on client's needs?" Riiiight. I guess you can easily explain then, why health insurance companies do NOT cover pre-existing conditions...

    Tell you what. When I need the services of someone who does nothing more than push little pieces of paper around in order to jack up my final bill, of an industry that regularly denies me the very thing I'm paying through the nose for, I'll call you.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    It's been done in explicit detail, the numbers don't say what you want them to, and the breakdown is less than 5% of the American populace.
    Really? Publishing the explicit details ("proof that it was a necessary procedure, proof that the doctor wasn't ordering an unnecessary procedure, etc. etc.") of the deaths of each of the 45,000 people who die annually for lack of health care insurance has been done? By whom? When?

    Thus far, you have provided absolutely zero documentation for anything you've claimed in this thread. ZERO. If this research has actually been done and the data from each case is publicly available, please share it with us. Then everyone can decide for themselves if these individuals' lives were or were not directly related to having no health care insurance.

    We'll wait.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Wow, you used biased sources,
    You've already indicated that you believe my sources to be biased. Thus far, you have provided absolutely zero documentation for this assertion. ZERO.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    incomplete info,
    I've offered more than enough "complete" information. Thus far, you have provided absolutely zero documentation for anything you've claimed in this thread. ZERO.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    and talking points from the hard left,
    HA!@! "Hard left!" That's rich! The only way I could be considered so is if the "hard left" suddenly starts vigorously supporting the death penalty and the right to keep a loaded Mossberg at the front door.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Maybe since you made a bunch of generalized attacks on an industry with no working knowledge of it you could burden yourself to back it up,
    I'd say I've backed up my arguments quite well - with plenty of legitimate documentation. Thus far, you have provided absolutely zero documentation for anything you've claimed in this thread. ZERO.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I'm not bringing numbers
    Ah. So your idea of grown-up debate is to stick your fingers in your ears and shout "LLALALALAAALA I CAN'T HEAR YOOOOUUUUUUU," and an across-the-board refusal to provide any sort of evidence of any kind to support your position? Well done!

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    it's not my job to back your claims.
    Thus far, you have provided absolutely zero documentation for anything you've claimed in this thread. ZERO. Furthermore, I've not asked you to back up my claims; I've asked you to back up your own.
    Last edited by Glinda; 10-11-09 at 02:17 PM.

  2. #112
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    Re: Guess Who Has the Highest Medical Claim Rejection Rate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    Three or four close relatives do not constitute "the medical field."
    Neither does the AMA, nor the New England Journal of medicine, or Harvard Medical, so what's your point?

    I've supplied plenty of documented evidence that a significant majority of our health care providers support a public option.
    Many do, it's a liability dump, so what's your point? Other than thinking that "some" of an industry or a weak consensus equals a good idea.
    Thus far, you have provided absolutely zero documentation for anything you've claimed in this thread. ZERO. Please provide us with at least as much valid documentation to the contrary.
    I'm not making claims, you are, and frankly it's been a busy weekend, you know, owning a business and all, I don't punch out at five o'clock.


    How many is "many?" Thus far, you have provided absolutely zero documentation for anything you've claimed in this thread. ZERO. Please provide us with valid documentation for this questionable assertion.
    Again, it's as valid without numbers as you citing the AMA, New England journal of medicine, etc.



    How many is "many?" I've already provided links to several polls that indicate physicians overwhelmingly support a public option - physicians from every medical specialty and from every geographic location in the country. Thus far, you have provided absolutely zero documentation for anything you've claimed in this thread. ZERO. Please provide us with valid documentation for your questionable assertion that "many AMA members are opposed" to a public option.
    You did in fact post links, to biased sources, incomplete analysis, etc. etc.



    You've "exposed" nothing. Provided no links. Offered no valid documentation. Just a lot of bluster and posturing. Please provide us with valid evidence that 45,000 people do NOT die annually due to lack of health insurance.
    I won't post sources on that because they are biased in either direction, not the numbers, just the resources, the numbers make sense, but not to a proponent of subsidies.



    What "facts" are you referring to? I've provided numerous links to valid, indisputable, factual data.
    No, you haven't, you have provided opinion pieces and incomplete analysis. Your sources show generalized numbers and no methodolgy, that screams informational bias, but if you want to keep thinking that's great information then be my guest.


    "Provide services?" What "services" do health insurance salesmen provide besides endlessly pushing little pieces of paper around? The health insurance industry is one huge circle jerk - each salesman beating off the other to keep their money-making death panels alive and functioning.
    You have no idea what we do for clients, I am constantly doing cost-benefit comparisons, company shopping, crunching numbers, and customizing needs to budgets, but then again, I wouldn't expect an outsider to either industry to know what actually goes on after the meetings.

    [quote]"Based on client's needs?" Riiiight. I guess you can easily explain then, why health insurance companies do NOT cover pre-existing conditions...




    Really? Publishing the explicit details ("proof that it was a necessary procedure, proof that the doctor wasn't ordering an unnecessary procedure, etc. etc.") of the deaths of each of the 45,000 people who die annually for lack of health care insurance has been done? By whom? When?
    Yeah, see I remember when that Democrat senator made the claim too, here's the catch, can he prove that each one of those 45k procedures would have saved the person's life, or better yet, that a life threatening condition was denied against federal law at an emergency room. Yeah, thought so, morbidity tables based on the procedure would line up against that.
    Thus far, you have provided absolutely zero documentation for anything you've claimed in this thread. ZERO. If this research has actually been done and the data from each case is publicly available, please share it with us.
    Oh, so now it has to be publicly available, hmmm, well, can't do that, see, we have information we can't just release like other professionals.


    You've already indicated that you believe my sources to be biased.
    I don't believe they are biased, I know they are biased, they start with a stated agenda and word the debate in ways that don't play out to the facts, then they don't release their methodology, that IS biased.


    - Aside from the repetive crap and ludicrous assertions, I will also remind you that this thread is about a government system denying the most prodcedures, your claims, as well as Pete's are all recycled from other debates and have nothing to do with this discussion, the simple FACT is that a government program with LESS enrollees has a HIGHER percentage of denials than any of those "evil" for profit companies with a smaller needs base, and that will only be increased when more non-paying recipients are added, since there is no way for the government to pay for these things out of pockets, that leads to higher cost and cost cutting, which means.......stay with me now........denial of claims.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  3. #113
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    Re: Guess Who Has the Highest Medical Claim Rejection Rate?

    Hmmm. Still no data. No links to polls, no verified research, or the slightest hint of documentation for your self-serving assertions. Just a whole lot of "I know what I know and you're wrong."



    Well, gosh. Your many outstanding and impeccable proofs have certainly changed my mind. And your debate skills are impressively nonexistent.

  4. #114
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    Re: Guess Who Has the Highest Medical Claim Rejection Rate?

    More documentation, just because I found it quite interesting:

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    since you can undoubtedly say what a company's motivations are
    Let's take a closer look at that. What are a health insurance company's motivations?

    Health Insurance Insider: 'They Dump the Sick'
    Retired Health Insurance Executive Blows the Whistle on His Former Industry

    Frustrated Americans have long complained that their insurance companies valued the all-mighty buck over their health care. Today, a retired insurance executive confirmed their suspicions, arguing that the industry that once employed him regularly rips off its policyholders.

    "[T]hey confuse their customers and dump the sick, all so they can satisfy their Wall Street investors," former Cigna senior executive Wendell Potter said during a hearing on health insurance today before the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation.

    Potter, who has more than 20 years of experience working in public relations for insurance companies Cigna and Humana, said companies routinely drop seriously ill policyholders so they can meet "Wall Street's relentless profit expectations."

    "They look carefully to see if a sick policyholder may have omitted a minor illness, a pre-existing condition, when applying for coverage, and then they use that as justification to cancel the policy, even if the enrollee has never missed a premium payment," Potter said.


    Small businesses, in particular, he said, have had trouble maintaining their employee health insurance coverage, he said.

    "All it takes is one illness or accident among employees at a small business to prompt an insurance company to hike the next year's premiums so high that the employer has to cut benefits, shop for another carrier, or stop offering coverage altogether," he said.

    Potter also faulted insurance companies for being misleading both in advertising their policies to new customers and in communicating with existing policyholders.

    More and more people, he said, are falling victim to "deceptive marketing practices" that encourage them to buy "what essentially is fake insurance," policies with high costs but surprisingly limited benefits.


    Insurance companies continue to mislead consumers through "explanation of benefits" documents that note what payments the insurance company made and what's left for consumers to pay out of pocket, Potter said.

    The documents, he said, are "notoriously incomprehensible."

    "Insurers know that policyholders are so baffled by those notices they usually just ignore them or throw them away. And that's exactly the point," he said. "If they were more understandable, more consumers might realize that they are being ripped off."

  5. #115
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    Re: Guess Who Has the Highest Medical Claim Rejection Rate?

    Uh-oh. Health insurance salespeople had better start worrying... They might end up exactly as screwed as millions of other Americans are - no job AND no health insurance.



    WellPoint cuts workers health benefits

    INDIANAPOLIS - WellPoint Inc., the largest U.S. insurer, dismissed a "small number" of workers last week and announced cuts to employee health benefits Friday, in its latest attempt to deal with the recession's toll on enrollment.

    WellPoint eliminated the positions last week and expects to let more go before year's end, though the number will be "relatively small," Kristin Binns, a spokeswoman, said in a telephone interview. The company will also raise deductibles and premiums for some of its employee health benefits, the Indianapolis-based insurer told workers in a memo obtained by Bloomberg.

    In the memo from Randy Brown, WellPoint's chief human resources officer, the company said it would lower its contribution toward worker premiums and raise deductibles in two of its three benefit plans. "Your cost per paycheck will probably increase," the memo said.
    I'm willing to bet that none of Wellpoint's top executives have had a cut in pay or benefits, while they happily eat their own...

  6. #116
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    Re: Guess Who Has the Highest Medical Claim Rejection Rate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    Hmmm. Still no data. No links to polls, no verified research, or the slightest hint of documentation for your self-serving assertions. Just a whole lot of "I know what I know and you're wrong."



    Well, gosh. Your many outstanding and impeccable proofs have certainly changed my mind. And your debate skills are impressively nonexistent.
    Cute little tactic of insulting people, but do you care to get back on topic and debate the FACT, that has been documented in the op, that medicare, which is public, has the highest decline rate of any plan, or do you want to keep derailing with long discredited talkiing points? First off, I don't carry any health providers at this particular moment for two reasons, one, your side is being childish and wants to take private companies out of just about every facet of the economy, including health care and it's funding mechanisms, secondly, I hate dealing with health insurance selling because of people like yourself who don't want to pay for it individually. Secondly, polls don't matter in the health care debate, because if everyone has the wrong opinion or has consensus on incorrect, it's still incorrect. Third, you made the same discredited claims that have been covered ad-infinitum on this board, which is one of the many reasons I haven't bothered to waste my time on public information sources, one can read back all over this forum to see your side discredited, but that is a cute little tactic of asking for sources. Fourth, the sources I found were opinion pieces, much like everything you have put forward, I don't do opinions as sources in this kind of debate, I bring facts, indisputable facts, if you really want them I'll find them, but as it stands, you are bringing opinions and insulting my profession, not exactly a great debate tactic yourself. Oh, and I'll go ahead and use biased sources myself, since you stand by yours.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  7. #117
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    Re: Guess Who Has the Highest Medical Claim Rejection Rate?

    Still refusing/unable to provide even the tiniest shred of documentation for your worthless assertions, I see.

    If I may make a suggestion... perhaps a debate board isn't the right place for you. You're clearly not up to it.

  8. #118
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    Re: Guess Who Has the Highest Medical Claim Rejection Rate?

    Kandahar,looks like your goverment, is the public enemy of the people of the United States of America,well thats what u voted for and thats what u get.I dont know why u guys get so uptight about this health probs,what do u want
    for your health care,make up your minds once and for all.

    NHS is the Best so there u go

    Kandahar.
    or just suffer.
    sorry for u m8.

    god bless u.

    mikeey

  9. #119
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    Re: Guess Who Has the Highest Medical Claim Rejection Rate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    Uh-oh. Health insurance salespeople had better start worrying... They might end up exactly as screwed as millions of other Americans are - no job AND no health insurance.





    I'm willing to bet that none of Wellpoint's top executives have had a cut in pay or benefits, while they happily eat their own...
    That's a guarantee.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

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