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Thread: Wingnuts Unite: Ron Paul Joins Michelle Bachmann in Weirdest Town Hall Ever

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    Re: Wingnuts Unite: Ron Paul Joins Michelle Bachmann in Weirdest Town Hall Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Look, in Obama's own words :
    "There are people that disagree with me on a partisan basis, that I can't do anything about, and there are those who are opposed because they feel that government should not interfere with their lives... I just happen to disagree."

    Care to explain how and why you support the bills Obama has propsed : civilian youth squads, 'reasonable restrictions' on guns like DC (total ban), government takeover of the auto industry, the socialization of medicare, among the other things that he's done...

    It's fine to be generally democratic or republican, but don't let it blind you either...
    I'll discuss issues if you want to be upfront and honest about what they actually are...


    I wonder what you would say if I came into a thread about Obama and just started regurgitating inane sentiments about the drooling, adulatory sheeple and their "Messiah". I bet that would go over real well with you and Hatuey...
    Doesn't this happen in every single thread mentioning Obama?
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    Re: Wingnuts Unite: Ron Paul Joins Michelle Bachmann in Weirdest Town Hall Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    The civilian youth squads is the GIVE act,
    Yes, not to mention the 5 times that Obama is on film saying that he would like to see a program of mandatory civilian service, rahm emmanuel said that 'citizenship is earned', and has written a book on the subject. The boy scouts are now training with homeland security... I can source that with a mainline article but just search 'boy scoouts homeland security' same goes for the girl scouts.

    The GIVE act originally stated "mandatory civilian service for everyone 18-25" but that was changed to something along the lines of 'to create an organization that could plan for a mandatory civilian program'... Although I didn't read the bill as it was passed into law.

    Obama didn't support the DC total ban,
    No, but Obama Plays it Safe on Issue of Guns - ABC News
    So, bassically he's calling all current laws as being 'reasonable' so, the DC gun ban is also reasonable.

    Medicare IS a socialist program and was from the beginning, and I forget the other thing the dude said, but yea, you nailed it, total koolaid drinker, and it wasn't you doing the drinking.
    Ya, regardless, the Obama care is sketchy... example: the person goes and says he doesn't think his kid should be allowed to die for his condition, the senator replies' that's not in there' then the guy pulls out the bill and section number relevant, the senator then replies 'oh we should change that'

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Where are these civilian youth squads and why are they sinister?
    Americorps, citiyear, boy and girl scouts of america... if you want to see the danger of youth squads look no further then nazi germany for the extreme of where it can go... the same programs do exist in places like China, North Korea, and Cuba, among other places... you know, those other freedom loving nations.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us/14explorers.html

    What gun control legislation has Obama proposed or signed?
    http://www.rules.house.gov/111/Amndm...hr2647_111.pdf
    (I don't think it's passed yet, but bassically you could have your right to bear arms rescinded if the atorney general decides that you're associated with a hate group... just to show 1 example of gun laws that Obama or the democrats have proposed.)

    When did Medicare and Medicaide change to be other than at least somewhat socialist?
    Ok, the system as it is now is a kind of 'rationing by market' model... where the new system would be a rationing by a board who would decide who gets what procedures and who needs to be triaged.

    I think one of us has "drank the koolaid", and it isn't me.

    By the way, I support the second amendment, I oppose a pubic option in health care reform, and divided on the auto industry bailout.
    As for the auto industry.. direct government involvement with industries and corporations is one of the definitions used for facism. The 'public-private partnerships'.

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    Re: Wingnuts Unite: Ron Paul Joins Michelle Bachmann in Weirdest Town Hall Ever

    [quote=BmanMcfly;1058301197]


    Americorps, citiyear, boy and girl scouts of america... if you want to see the danger of youth squads look no further then nazi germany for the extreme of where it can go... the same programs do exist in places like China, North Korea, and Cuba, among other places... you know, those other freedom loving nations.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us/14explorers.html[quote]

    Yes, we are so much like Nazi Germany...

    Can the paranoia, there is zero evidence of anything wrong with this on anything like that scale, and lots of evidence that there is not.



    http://www.rules.house.gov/111/Amndm...hr2647_111.pdf
    (I don't think it's passed yet, but bassically you could have your right to bear arms rescinded if the atorney general decides that you're associated with a hate group... just to show 1 example of gun laws that Obama or the democrats have proposed.)
    So now we have moved past Obama and now it's just any democrat. Way to move those goalposts. Further, as best I can tell(I may be wrong, but don't think so) this amendment may already be voted down, and if not, it will be. Further, it's about recruiting people into the military in "hate groups", not gun control.



    Ok, the system as it is now is a kind of 'rationing by market' model... where the new system would be a rationing by a board who would decide who gets what procedures and who needs to be triaged.
    You mean like health insurance?



    As for the auto industry.. direct government involvement with industries and corporations is one of the definitions used for facism. The 'public-private partnerships'.
    Useless exaggerated hyperbole is, well, useless.

    I repeat, one of us has "drank the koolaid", and it ain't me.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Wingnuts Unite: Ron Paul Joins Michelle Bachmann in Weirdest Town Hall Ever

    First off, I voted for Paul in the primaries and I'm proud of it. But some of his supporters are incredibly obnoxious and arrogant. This is a trend I've found to run true with a lot of extreme libertarians. Honestly, radical libertarians are some of the most smug, self assured, pompous, condescending jerks I've ever met. Of course, every movement or candidate has these types of supporters. And yes, with the Ron Paul movement being relatively small, those jerks do stand out more than they normally would.

    But, many of us are more than willing to engage in reasonable discussions about Paul, his policies, libertarian thought in general and in practice. I do think many of the more reasonable Ron Paul backers or libertarians are a bit sensative to blanket dismissals by using terms like wingnut or kook or whatever the slur is. Its no different that calling conservatives ignorant backwood rednecks or liberals aloof, latte sipping elitests. It's no different than right wing hacks who call Obama the Messiah or a socialist or Muslim or any other stupid baseless attack. The only difference is we get it from both the left and right (until recently, now the right is at least paying some lip service to libertarian ideals again).

    You may find libertarian ideals to be radical, out there, extreme, or diametrically opposed to your core values, that doesn't mean that folks who hold them are idiots, wingnuts, or kooks. People who insist on using those dismissive slurs (like our resident anti-libertarian hack, Hautey) do nothing to add to the debate or discussion. I think there are plenty of reasonable libertarians on this board who just want to be treated with some respect - Etheral, Goshin, Drunken Asparagus, Goldenboy, Ikari, myself and others are more than happy to debate policy in a respectful tone, but I don't think its too much to ask that some basic respect and courtesy be shown our way as well.
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    Re: Wingnuts Unite: Ron Paul Joins Michelle Bachmann in Weirdest Town Hall Ever

    [quote=Redress;1058301349][quote=BmanMcfly;1058301197]


    Americorps, citiyear, boy and girl scouts of america... if you want to see the danger of youth squads look no further then nazi germany for the extreme of where it can go... the same programs do exist in places like China, North Korea, and Cuba, among other places... you know, those other freedom loving nations.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us/14explorers.html

    Yes, we are so much like Nazi Germany...

    Can the paranoia, there is zero evidence of anything wrong with this on anything like that scale, and lots of evidence that there is not.
    Lol... no no, of course not... It's just in the new york times that the boy scouts are training to take on disgruntled veterans and gun owners to help homeland security.

    Put it this way, in nazi germany the working class was so propagandized that it's no real surprise that many of them had no idea of the horrors that were being perpetrated all around them.

    So now we have moved past Obama and now it's just any democrat. Way to move those goalposts. Further, as best I can tell(I may be wrong, but don't think so) this amendment may already be voted down, and if not, it will be. Further, it's about recruiting people into the military in "hate groups", not gun control.
    No, Obama himself only talks about 'reasonable restrictions', citing total bans as 'reasonable'... that's only 1 of the bills that have anti-gun contentions... If I really looked, I could find probably 5-6 others... so, simply, the politician Obama is saying that he supports the second ammendment, but believes in 'reasonable restrictions', so ANY gun restriction law that crosses his desk he will deem 'reasonable' even if it's a total ban. He is very slick... even slicker then Bush, who himself was amazingly slick for how stupid he came across as...

    Further, while the INTENT of that bill deals with millitary recruitment, the way it does so is by labelling a wide variety of groups as 'hate-groups' which would tie into the patriot act where these groups could then be called 'domestic terrorists' and as we all know, domestic terrorists in the patriot act have waived their rights under the constitution.

    Seriously, especially with all the anti-gun rhetoric coming out of the administration, (ex: rahm emmanuel saying if you're on the 'no fly list' you don't deserve to own a firearm, etc) how can you simply claim that it's not happening... I mean, I do a search for gun bills in hourse and / or senate and there's too many to list.

    You mean like health insurance?
    Yes, that's ration by market, if the costs for insurance go up to the point where a person can't afford it, they can be denied treatment.

    Instead, through Obama care, a panel would decide how treatments are rationed... and then you'll probably deny rationing when most every section of the bill that I've seen talks about some form of rationing.

    Useless exaggerated hyperbole is, well, useless.
    I was just pointing out that by some definitions we are living in a facsist republic at this point.

    I repeat, one of us has "drank the koolaid", and it ain't me.
    Drank the kool-aiod??? It's called knowing history, and watching it repeat (ableit at a much slower pace then has been witnessed by previous dictators) itself. I hate to break it to you, but while Obama talks about peace and love, his actions are the opposite. Example : he's called a peace lover when under Obama there are more troops in the mddle east now then when Bush was in power... hell, that'll get denied too... just like it's denied that the whole point of being in afghanistan is for heroin money... 500billion/ year. 2006 was a record year for opium production in afghanistan... in 2007 that record was broken... in 2008 a NEW record was set... in 2009 THAT record was beat 13 TIMES over. ... no point in sourcing it, it either doesn't exist or you'll agree 'oh we gotta protect the opium fields or else the taliban will take over the heroin production' (to paraphrase what the BBC said on the subject about a month or so ago) ... Think about it, do you think back when the afghan war was with Russia... do you think that the russians wanted afghanistan so that they could have access to all the sand and mountainous terrain??? OF COURSE NOT... they were there for the same reason, SMACK.

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    Re: Wingnuts Unite: Ron Paul Joins Michelle Bachmann in Weirdest Town Hall Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Americorps, citiyear, boy and girl scouts of america... if you want to see the danger of youth squads look no further then nazi germany for the extreme of where it can go... the same programs do exist in places like China, North Korea, and Cuba, among other places... you know, those other freedom loving nations.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us/14explorers.html

    Lol... no no, of course not... It's just in the new york times that the boy scouts are training to take on disgruntled veterans and gun owners to help homeland security.

    Put it this way, in nazi germany the working class was so propagandized that it's no real surprise that many of them had no idea of the horrors that were being perpetrated all around them.



    No, Obama himself only talks about 'reasonable restrictions', citing total bans as 'reasonable'... that's only 1 of the bills that have anti-gun contentions... If I really looked, I could find probably 5-6 others... so, simply, the politician Obama is saying that he supports the second ammendment, but believes in 'reasonable restrictions', so ANY gun restriction law that crosses his desk he will deem 'reasonable' even if it's a total ban. He is very slick... even slicker then Bush, who himself was amazingly slick for how stupid he came across as...

    Further, while the INTENT of that bill deals with millitary recruitment, the way it does so is by labelling a wide variety of groups as 'hate-groups' which would tie into the patriot act where these groups could then be called 'domestic terrorists' and as we all know, domestic terrorists in the patriot act have waived their rights under the constitution.

    Seriously, especially with all the anti-gun rhetoric coming out of the administration, (ex: rahm emmanuel saying if you're on the 'no fly list' you don't deserve to own a firearm, etc) how can you simply claim that it's not happening... I mean, I do a search for gun bills in hourse and / or senate and there's too many to list.



    Yes, that's ration by market, if the costs for insurance go up to the point where a person can't afford it, they can be denied treatment.

    Instead, through Obama care, a panel would decide how treatments are rationed... and then you'll probably deny rationing when most every section of the bill that I've seen talks about some form of rationing.



    I was just pointing out that by some definitions we are living in a facsist republic at this point.



    Drank the kool-aiod??? It's called knowing history, and watching it repeat (ableit at a much slower pace then has been witnessed by previous dictators) itself. I hate to break it to you, but while Obama talks about peace and love, his actions are the opposite. Example : he's called a peace lover when under Obama there are more troops in the mddle east now then when Bush was in power... hell, that'll get denied too... just like it's denied that the whole point of being in afghanistan is for heroin money... 500billion/ year. 2006 was a record year for opium production in afghanistan... in 2007 that record was broken... in 2008 a NEW record was set... in 2009 THAT record was beat 13 TIMES over. ... no point in sourcing it, it either doesn't exist or you'll agree 'oh we gotta protect the opium fields or else the taliban will take over the heroin production' (to paraphrase what the BBC said on the subject about a month or so ago) ... Think about it, do you think back when the afghan war was with Russia... do you think that the russians wanted afghanistan so that they could have access to all the sand and mountainous terrain??? OF COURSE NOT... they were there for the same reason, SMACK.
    I wrote out a nice long reply last night, but the forum went down while I typed it(the curse of being a slow typist). I am too lazy to retype the whole thing, so a summary:

    1) no mention in your article that this branch of the Boy Scouts is doing this training with the government. You would think they would mention it if that was the case.

    2) H.R. 1388 - Summary: Serve America Act (GovTrack.us) This went into effect Oct 1 this year, which is several months after your article, so irrelevant to it.

    3) You failed in your first attempt at tying Obama to anti-gun legislation, I doubt you are going to do better with your several others you claim you can find.

    4)Ration by profit is more likely to hurt me than ration by government, and insurance companies have a long and storied history of screwing participants. Further, I am against a public option at this time, and claiming I am brainwashed by Obama when I disagree with him on a very substantive issue is silly.

    5) The rest of your post belongs in the Conspiracy Theory forum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Wingnuts Unite: Ron Paul Joins Michelle Bachmann in Weirdest Town Hall Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I wrote out a nice long reply last night, but the forum went down while I typed it(the curse of being a slow typist). I am too lazy to retype the whole thing, so a summary:
    I hate when that happens..

    1) no mention in your article that this branch of the Boy Scouts is doing this training with the government. You would think they would mention it if that was the case.
    My first attempt was to show the boyscouts of america webpage where they said this 'police training' was under DHS guidance... which if you read DHS reports the number 1 enemies are gun owners, disgruntled veterans, Ron Paul / Bob Barr supporters, anti-abortion groups, etc... however, the boyscouts of america page discussing DHS has been removed... so, I suppose it's my own fault that the information to prove my point no longer exists in any 'reliable' fasion on the internet.

    2) H.R. 1388 - Summary: Serve America Act (GovTrack.us) This went into effect Oct 1 this year, which is several months after your article, so irrelevant to it.

    3) You failed in your first attempt at tying Obama to anti-gun legislation, I doubt you are going to do better with your several others you claim you can find.
    Fair point... although I remember saying that there were 'too many gun bills to list'. but with Rahm emmanuel making his views on guns quite clear, Obama's insinuation that 'total bans' are reasonable, although I didn't mention Sonya Sotomeier (sp?) who did write a book called 'america's deadly obsession' where she says that the second ammendment denies the right to bear arms to citizens... regardless, the demonization of the gun culture is older then Obama... maybe even Bush's presidency.

    4)Ration by profit is more likely to hurt me than ration by government, and insurance companies have a long and storied history of screwing participants. Further, I am against a public option at this time, and claiming I am brainwashed by Obama when I disagree with him on a very substantive issue is silly.
    Except when the board looks at a person and says 'we can spend 100k to treat someone that will never be able to recontribute that value back into society, treatment denied.", 'this woman has lived a long life, she should accept that it's getting close to her time. hip replacement denied.', but you have shown yourself more educated on the subject then many supporters that will simply deny that sections of the bill are there, in spite of it being clearly written (ex: the part where illegal immigrants get free healthcare).

    5) The rest of your post belongs in the Conspiracy Theory forum.
    Which part?
    - Knowing history = conspiracy?
    - History repeating = conspiracy?
    - Replacing millitary in Iraq with contractors, then moving much of those troop numbers to afghanistan = conspiracy?
    - 2006-2009 cumulative RECORDS in afghan heroin production while the fields are under the PROTECTIOn of the army and NATO forces= conspiracy?
    - The Russians didn't go to afghanistan to feel like they owned a giant beach with no water = conspiracy?

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    Re: Wingnuts Unite: Ron Paul Joins Michelle Bachmann in Weirdest Town Hall Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Obama is much more mainstream and moderate on the issues than Ron Paul, who is very far out on the extreme.
    I fail to see how this is a response to my post.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Wingnuts Unite: Ron Paul Joins Michelle Bachmann in Weirdest Town Hall Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    First off, I voted for Paul in the primaries and I'm proud of it. But some of his supporters are incredibly obnoxious and arrogant. This is a trend I've found to run true with a lot of extreme libertarians. Honestly, radical libertarians are some of the most smug, self assured, pompous, condescending jerks I've ever met. Of course, every movement or candidate has these types of supporters. And yes, with the Ron Paul movement being relatively small, those jerks do stand out more than they normally would.

    But, many of us are more than willing to engage in reasonable discussions about Paul, his policies, libertarian thought in general and in practice. I do think many of the more reasonable Ron Paul backers or libertarians are a bit sensative to blanket dismissals by using terms like wingnut or kook or whatever the slur is. Its no different that calling conservatives ignorant backwood rednecks or liberals aloof, latte sipping elitests. It's no different than right wing hacks who call Obama the Messiah or a socialist or Muslim or any other stupid baseless attack. The only difference is we get it from both the left and right (until recently, now the right is at least paying some lip service to libertarian ideals again).

    You may find libertarian ideals to be radical, out there, extreme, or diametrically opposed to your core values, that doesn't mean that folks who hold them are idiots, wingnuts, or kooks. People who insist on using those dismissive slurs (like our resident anti-libertarian hack, Hautey) do nothing to add to the debate or discussion. I think there are plenty of reasonable libertarians on this board who just want to be treated with some respect - Etheral, Goshin, Drunken Asparagus, Goldenboy, Ikari, myself and others are more than happy to debate policy in a respectful tone, but I don't think its too much to ask that some basic respect and courtesy be shown our way as well.
    I completely understand, but you have to keep in mind that libertarians tend to be some of the most dismissive and rude people on the internet. I have a feeling that if libertarians stopped insulting people as much as they do, they'd get treated a lot better.
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    Re: Wingnuts Unite: Ron Paul Joins Michelle Bachmann in Weirdest Town Hall Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    I completely understand, but you have to keep in mind that libertarians tend to be some of the most dismissive and rude people on the internet. I have a feeling that if libertarians stopped insulting people as much as they do, they'd get treated a lot better.
    It's been my experience that the most dismissive and rude are the American conservatives and liberals. Libertarians seem to be the only ones to give reasoned responses and not resort to logical fallacies (such as personal attacks and red herrings).

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    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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