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Thread: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforcemen

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If he doesn't, then he's being cheated by his chain of command. he deserves to know what factors his superirors are using to determine if they are, or aren't going to fill his request. Wouldn't you agree.
    If they do end of having impact he should be briefed. I don't see a reason the commanding officer should be informed about every discussion that occurs as most of them probably lead to nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I never said that McChrystal's plan is 100% flawless, because, there's no such thing as a 100% flawless battle plan. However, McChrystal's plan is more credible tha anyone else's, because he has first hand knowledge of the situation.
    That's because no one else is in his position. His requests, especially asking to quadruple his current forces in Afghanistan, should rightly be evaluated.


    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If they're not doing their job, then he should relieve them of their commands., however that's not a prerequisit to get vital information from the chain of command. They're not trick ponies dancing on their hind legs for a reward.
    vital information is much different then asking for a 50% increase in troop levels.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    So your idea of "chain of command" is the requirement of commanding officers to fulfill their subordinates requests without question? I thought the command went down, not up?
    That's exactly right. Army Regulations say that that is the case.

    a. The chain of command assists commanders at all levels to achieve their primary responsibility of accomplishing the unit's assigned mission...

    b. Commanders are responsible for everything their command does or fails to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    If they do end of having impact he should be briefed. I don't see a reason the commanding officer should be informed about every discussion that occurs as most of them probably lead to nothing.
    The discussions that do lead to a decision should be passed along to the theater commander.


    That's because no one else is in his position. His requests, especially asking to quadruple his current forces in Afghanistan, should rightly be evaluated.
    When you're theater commander, CENTCOM commander and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs all agree, common sense would dictate that you, as president, should listen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's exactly right. Army Regulations say that that is the case.
    Where does it say that? To me that reads that Obama, as McChrystal commander, will be fully responsible for what McChrystal does or fails to do.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Where does it say that? To me that reads that Obama, as McChrystal commander, will be fully responsible for what McChrystal does or fails to do.
    You are correct, that is what it says. Nowhere does it say he is obligated in any way to do whatever any subordinate tells him to do.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Where does it say that? To me that reads that Obama, as McChrystal commander, will be fully responsible for what McChrystal does or fails to do.
    That's right, PBO is responsible to assist McChrystal in whatever way possible, to help McChrystal complete his mission.

    Says it right here:

    a. The chain of command assists commanders at all levels to achieve their primary responsibility of accomplishing the unit's assigned mission...


    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You are correct, that is what it says. Nowhere does it say he is obligated in any way to do whatever any subordinate tells him to do.

    Tell? No, but it's PBO's legal obligation as CIC to fulfill his ground commanders's requests for the neccessary resources to complete the mission.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post

    Tell? No, but it's PBO's legal obligation as CIC to fulfill his ground commanders's requests for the neccessary resources to complete the mission.
    No, it is not. It is Obama's responsibility as CIC to make the best decisions based on the information he gets from those subordinate to him. He can overrule those subordinates at any time he chooses is he thinks it is the best decision. Ultimately, Obama is "the decider".
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    No, it is not. It is Obama's responsibility as CIC to make the best decisions based on the information he gets from those subordinate to him. He can overrule those subordinates at any time he chooses is he thinks it is the best decision. Ultimately, Obama is "the decider".
    So, here were go again, with the notion that as CIC, the president, especially Obama, can throw the rules and regulations out the window and do whatever the hell he wants. Sorry, but that's not the way it is out in the real world. If the president fails to give the proper support to soldiers on the battlefield, without damn good reason, it could be considered a dereliction of duty. Unless, you can prove otherwise. Can you?

    Dereliction of duty is an impeachable offense. mmm, mmm, mmm
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So, here were go again, with the notion that as CIC, the president, especially Obama, can throw the rules and regulations out the window and do whatever the hell he wants. Sorry, but that's not the way it is out in the real world. If the president fails to give the proper support to soldiers on the battlefield, without damn good reason, it could be considered a dereliction of duty. Unless, you can prove otherwise. Can you?

    Dereliction of duty is an impeachable offense. mmm, mmm, mmm
    Can I prove a negative? Of course not. You need to show in law where it would be dereliction of duty. It's not. Obama is the top of the chain of command, and it's up to him to make the final call on strategic matters(within reason of course, he is not responsible to decide all small scale strategic initiatives or tactics).
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Can I prove a negative? Of course not. You need to show in law where it would be dereliction of duty. It's not. Obama is the top of the chain of command, and it's up to him to make the final call on strategic matters(within reason of course, he is not responsible to decide all small scale strategic initiatives or tactics).
    You're not proving a negative if you prove the president's actual authority. I've already proved that he can't just do whatever he pleases and isn't above question simply virtue of being elected president. Certainly, if I'm wrong, there's something that explain's his authority in detail.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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