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Thread: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforcemen

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by kansaswhig View Post
    Again, wrong. We killed millions of NVA and VC and still lost. Reality is reality, sir. So why did we respond to the "weak" Taliban attack by closing the Combat Outpost that was attacked? Looks like they made an impression.
    The VC ceased to be combat effective in 1968. The main force units were absorbed into the NVA and the local force units were disbanded. The Communists were ready to surrender after the Tet Offensive, so your analysis is erroenous.




    So I'm right. And by the way, most of the Taliban leadership are Soviet war vets. You should know that from all those books you read.

    Only the highest levels of leadership and few of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The VC ceased to be combat effective in 1968. The main force units were absorbed into the NVA and the local force units were disbanded. The Communists were ready to surrender after the Tet Offensive, so your analysis is erroenous.
    No it's not at all, you failed to answer my question, which was:

    If the Taliban attack last week was so ineffective, then why did the Army close the outpost that was attacked?

    Secondly, not all VC fell into NVA formations, but you are right that many did; primarily because VC and NVA units LOC and unit boundaries began to blur so it made sense to collapse into the same unit(s). Also, The first NVA tactical units sent south still had at least 20% southern-born cadre. As the war progressed, more and more native North Vietnamese deployed south and, as of August 1969, 2/3 of all VC battalions in South Vietnam were NVA. During Tet 1968, 30,000 Viet Cong were lost, basically destroying the VC as a fighting force, but there were still local guerrillas who operated as farmers by day and soldiers by night. Their primary activities were intelligence gathering, sniping, setting booby traps, and acting as porters, scouts, and guides for Main Force and NVA units.

    But, that's neither here nor there...this is a mundane point anyway because all I did was say that we killed millions of Vietnamese in the war and you cited some obscure fact not even germane to the point I made in an attempt to change the subject, look smart (which you don't) and avioid answering my questions or rebutting my claims. I'll give you this; you are persistent. But you suck at debating and admitting when you are wrong.

    Only the highest levels of leadership and few of them.
    So I'm right. Thanks. This is the first time that you've been gracious in defeat.
    Last edited by kansaswhig; 10-09-09 at 06:03 PM.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    You're right. We don't have the political will to accomplish this, and that's a big reason why we don't have the national will to accomplish it either.

    Defeatist cry-babies have done more to prolong these wars than the enemy ever could have.
    And the unwillingness to do what needs to be done to thoroughly and truly defeat an enemy.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    [quote=kansaswhig;1058299390]No it's not at all, you failed to answer my question, which was:

    If the Taliban attack last week was so ineffective, then why did the Army close the outpost that was attacked?
    They had planned to abandon the post, anyway; even before the attack.





    So I'm right. Thanks. This is the first time that you've been gracious in defeat.

    You're part right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It is my understanding that this is a big part of what is being debated. Is the result going to be worth the effort? That is an important topic.
    The problem is that most the people in the Washington debate know as much about Afghani matters as they did about Iraqi matters.

    The moment Bush got rid of Rumsfeld, started listening to his military voices, and enlisted the aid of cultural expert Vali Nasr, Iraq turned around. Today, in regards to Afghanistan, the same idiots in suits fancy themselves again worthy of spewing their ignorance while the military voices are told that their uniformed and experienced opinions carry the same weight as the idiots.

    And today's retired generals have as much knowledge into what it takes to defeat this enemy as a World War II general did in regards to Vietnam. They are out of touch.

    The president has already stated that we aren't going anywhere. Therefore, the only option left is to give the generals their men. They trained them. They maintained them. And for what....A war?
    Last edited by MSgt; 10-12-09 at 02:01 AM.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by kansaswhig View Post
    Really? Read THIS

    Sounds like they are pretty combat-savvy.

    Just like their fathers.
    The Tali-ban have been slaughtered and slaughtered since 2001. There is nothing savvy about them. Like the majority of all military organizations in the Middle East, they rely heavily upon Soviet handbook tactics. A handbook our military trained to defeat for decades. But they are fighters and thismeans they will fight. This also means that they will get their shots in. But sacrificing dozens to hundreds of fighters so that CNN can report that an American G.I. was killed in "intense" fighting hardly puts themon verge of defeating us.

    There is nothing savvy about running and hiding so that you can be slaughtered another day.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    GYSGT well said GYSGT,go and show them what it is all about,just to win.

    all the best to u.

    mikeey

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    The Tali-ban have been slaughtered and slaughtered since 2001. There is nothing savvy about them. Like the majority of all military organizations in the Middle East, they rely heavily upon Soviet handbook tactics. A handbook our military trained to defeat for decades. But they are fighters and thismeans they will fight. This also means that they will get their shots in. But sacrificing dozens to hundreds of fighters so that CNN can report that an American G.I. was killed in "intense" fighting hardly puts themon verge of defeating us.

    There is nothing savvy about running and hiding so that you can be slaughtered another day.
    I,d say its somewhat savvy when there considerably out numbered, have no air support, and next to no artillery support. As you know full well if they were to fight conventionally that 'slaughtered another day' would come a whole lot quicker.

    Paul
    RIP THE EUROPEAN FORUM 2016

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by gunner View Post
    I,d say its somewhat savvy when there considerably out numbered, have no air support, and next to no artillery support. As you know full well if they were to fight conventionally that 'slaughtered another day' would come a whole lot quicker.

    Paul
    I don't think they're all that combat savvy. Recently, 200 Tallies went up against 100 Americans, outnumbering them 2-to-1 and took 50% casualties.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforc

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I don't think they're all that combat savvy. Recently, 200 Tallies went up against 100 Americans, outnumbering them 2-to-1 and took 50% casualties.
    That's a pretty good ratio for a highly trained fighting force. British forces often accept disparity in terms of numbers, with a ratio of 4 to 1 being fully expected. The Falklands was an example where we were outnumbered.

    You have to take into account our superior fire power over the Taliban, it always helps to even the odds.

    Paul
    RIP THE EUROPEAN FORUM 2016

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